5 ms·

Depends, Do you have 10 year olds who will work for 18c an hour? Or do you have consumers who will pay for the difference?

declan_roberts 2y ago
Unfortunately the USA doesn't have religious prisoners who can be coerced into a factory as slave labor.
- swarnie 2y ago
  You might be on to something though! If you dont mind dropping the religious aspect i think you already have the rest via the Prison-Industries Act; as cheap as an Asian child but with the strength and intelligence of the US adult prison population. Hold on im going to write this down.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    What's more interesting is that if you do it correctly, someone could leave jail / prison with interesting niche skills you could technically hire for, assuming they prove they are reformed.
  - soseng 2y ago
    It seems that Arizona is #3 for the total number of for-profit prisoners. There may be untapped potential for slave labor and finding creative ways to imprison Americans here. Stat: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners-private-prisons-us-state/#:~:text=As%20of%202022%2C%20the%20state,private%20prisoners%20in%20that%20year https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners....
- nemomarx 2y ago
  we do have a lot of prisoners though, and they do various factory kinda jobs. probably not high skill ones though?
  - 0_____0 2y ago
    It depends, there are definitely things like carpentry and other manufacturing that prisoners do that I wouldn't call 'unskilled' by any stretch. One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized. Ask tradespeople how much they like competition from prisons or, in Germany, subsidised workplaces for the disabled.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  Not sure the religious remarks intention, but there's jails / prisons where prisoners do labor in exchange for very low compensation. Considering you get billed for being jailed, I would personally prefer working than to mount up debt I have no way of managing.
  - foobarian 2y ago
    Wait what you get billed for jailtime???
    - deaddodo 2y ago
      In very limited situations, in general (there are 50 states, I don't know the nuances of each). Usually only in pre-sentencing stays such as the drunk tank, pre-arraignment holding, etc. If you're sentenced, you aren't charged for that time. Additionally, it's usually waived during sentencing (if it goes that far) as a part of your Credit-Time-Served conversion.
  - morgango 2y ago
    I believe that is a reference to the treatment of Uyghurs in China.
  - deaddodo 2y ago
    I'm a huge proponent of incarceration reform, especially in regards to making the system more rehabilitative versus retributive. But it does no one any good spreading FUD. > there's jails / prisons where prisoners do labor in exchange for very low compensation Sure, but the work isn't allowed to be for private entities. They're doing government-related busywork in 99% of cases (pressing license plates, printing/cutting papers for the court, working on machinery for the police/courts, working the kitchen, etc.) More importantly, they're not just paid monetarily but receive reduced sentences for the work. > Considering you get billed for being jailed, I would personally prefer working than to mount up debt I have no way of managing. You're conflating two separate systems. Prisons are where you go for long stints and generally worry about Good Time/Work Time. You can't be charged a daily fine for prison time. Jails are intended for short stays (the drunk tank, transport to court arraignment, etc) and can have daily fines attached, in most states. In cases where county jails are used post sentencing for short-moderate stays, daily fines are generally far more limited/disallowed.
- lovich 2y ago
  13th amendment buddy. Slavery was never fully outlawed in the US
giancarlostoro 2y ago
People already pay a premium on Macs to be honest. Every hard drive upgrade is ridiculously overpriced. "Minecraft proves that the children yearn for the mines"
- Clamchop 2y ago
  Way less than they used to. The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Stands to follow that many of their new customers are price-sensitive.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Ever tried to configure storage on anything Apple? The markup is ridiculous, but on the other side, it blows a lot of the competition out of the water.
    - dangus 2y ago
      This is a dumb tangent that's been beaten to death, but yes Apple base model systems to tend to be somewhat untouchable in value around when they're released. Buying something anywhere close to the form factor of a Mac mini with the same performance is nearly impossible. We also shouldn't beat this horse to death because it's not hard to plug in a USB/Thunderbolt SSD and there's essentially no performance penalty. Or if you have a MacBook Pro you can get one of these: https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-transcend-review/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-tra... Not the fastest thing in the world but it gets the job done.
jsmcgd 2y ago
Humanoid robot workers are going to have a massive impact on industries like this. 'cheap labor' will no longer be isolated to certain regions.
randomopining 2y ago
Marginal cost added probably isn't that much. How many manhours does a mac take to build?
dangus 2y ago
Got any more of that hyperbole? Or maybe outdated xenophobia? The average manufacturing salary in China is around $13,000 a year, in a country where cost of living is 50% lower than the US and rent is 75% lower. China is actually a place with relatively high manufacturing labor costs these days, but it's a production center for a lot of industries and holds a lot of the ecosystems and institutional knowledge (not unlike all the automotive parts suppliers in the American Midwest).
- bfrog 2y ago
  https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... And yet…
  - dangus 2y ago
    I legally worked in the US at age 14 with a permit. No, my employer was not my parents' business and it was not farm-related, just a regular hourly employer. https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor-laws-sparks-outrage-this-just-crazy-1779821 https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor...
School-Cotton 2y ago
None of the people assembling Apple products in China are 10-year-olds making $0.18 an hour.
- bfrog 2y ago
  https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l...

declan_roberts 2y ago

Unfortunately the USA doesn't have religious prisoners who can be coerced into a factory as slave labor.

swarnie 2y ago
You might be on to something though! If you dont mind dropping the religious aspect i think you already have the rest via the Prison-Industries Act; as cheap as an Asian child but with the strength and intelligence of the US adult prison population. Hold on im going to write this down.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  What's more interesting is that if you do it correctly, someone could leave jail / prison with interesting niche skills you could technically hire for, assuming they prove they are reformed.
- soseng 2y ago
  It seems that Arizona is #3 for the total number of for-profit prisoners. There may be untapped potential for slave labor and finding creative ways to imprison Americans here. Stat: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners-private-prisons-us-state/#:~:text=As%20of%202022%2C%20the%20state,private%20prisoners%20in%20that%20year https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners....
nemomarx 2y ago
we do have a lot of prisoners though, and they do various factory kinda jobs. probably not high skill ones though?
- 0_____0 2y ago
  It depends, there are definitely things like carpentry and other manufacturing that prisoners do that I wouldn't call 'unskilled' by any stretch. One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized. Ask tradespeople how much they like competition from prisons or, in Germany, subsidised workplaces for the disabled.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
Not sure the religious remarks intention, but there's jails / prisons where prisoners do labor in exchange for very low compensation. Considering you get billed for being jailed, I would personally prefer working than to mount up debt I have no way of managing.
- foobarian 2y ago
  Wait what you get billed for jailtime???
  - deaddodo 2y ago
    In very limited situations, in general (there are 50 states, I don't know the nuances of each). Usually only in pre-sentencing stays such as the drunk tank, pre-arraignment holding, etc. If you're sentenced, you aren't charged for that time. Additionally, it's usually waived during sentencing (if it goes that far) as a part of your Credit-Time-Served conversion.
- morgango 2y ago
  I believe that is a reference to the treatment of Uyghurs in China.
- deaddodo 2y ago
  I'm a huge proponent of incarceration reform, especially in regards to making the system more rehabilitative versus retributive. But it does no one any good spreading FUD. > there's jails / prisons where prisoners do labor in exchange for very low compensation Sure, but the work isn't allowed to be for private entities. They're doing government-related busywork in 99% of cases (pressing license plates, printing/cutting papers for the court, working on machinery for the police/courts, working the kitchen, etc.) More importantly, they're not just paid monetarily but receive reduced sentences for the work. > Considering you get billed for being jailed, I would personally prefer working than to mount up debt I have no way of managing. You're conflating two separate systems. Prisons are where you go for long stints and generally worry about Good Time/Work Time. You can't be charged a daily fine for prison time. Jails are intended for short stays (the drunk tank, transport to court arraignment, etc) and can have daily fines attached, in most states. In cases where county jails are used post sentencing for short-moderate stays, daily fines are generally far more limited/disallowed.
lovich 2y ago
13th amendment buddy. Slavery was never fully outlawed in the US

giancarlostoro 2y ago

People already pay a premium on Macs to be honest. Every hard drive upgrade is ridiculously overpriced. "Minecraft proves that the children yearn for the mines"

Clamchop 2y ago
Way less than they used to. The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Stands to follow that many of their new customers are price-sensitive.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Ever tried to configure storage on anything Apple? The markup is ridiculous, but on the other side, it blows a lot of the competition out of the water.
  - dangus 2y ago
    This is a dumb tangent that's been beaten to death, but yes Apple base model systems to tend to be somewhat untouchable in value around when they're released. Buying something anywhere close to the form factor of a Mac mini with the same performance is nearly impossible. We also shouldn't beat this horse to death because it's not hard to plug in a USB/Thunderbolt SSD and there's essentially no performance penalty. Or if you have a MacBook Pro you can get one of these: https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-transcend-review/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-tra... Not the fastest thing in the world but it gets the job done.

jsmcgd 2y ago

Humanoid robot workers are going to have a massive impact on industries like this. 'cheap labor' will no longer be isolated to certain regions.

randomopining 2y ago

Marginal cost added probably isn't that much. How many manhours does a mac take to build?

dangus 2y ago

Got any more of that hyperbole? Or maybe outdated xenophobia? The average manufacturing salary in China is around $13,000 a year, in a country where cost of living is 50% lower than the US and rent is 75% lower. China is actually a place with relatively high manufacturing labor costs these days, but it's a production center for a lot of industries and holds a lot of the ecosystems and institutional knowledge (not unlike all the automotive parts suppliers in the American Midwest).

bfrog 2y ago
https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... And yet…
- dangus 2y ago
  I legally worked in the US at age 14 with a permit. No, my employer was not my parents' business and it was not farm-related, just a regular hourly employer. https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor-laws-sparks-outrage-this-just-crazy-1779821 https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor...

School-Cotton 2y ago

None of the people assembling Apple products in China are 10-year-olds making $0.18 an hour.

bfrog 2y ago
https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l...