7 ms·

A first look at Dell's 'Sputnik' Ubuntu Linux developer laptop

40 points by tanglesome 14y ago

mootothemax 14y ago
I presume that Dell are aiming to make a killing from less-informed buyers such as bosses at small companies (I have no idea how this might work at large companies), and parents for their kids interested in programming. Given how many people buy Dell, the "developer" tag will carry a lot of weight. I certainly can't see any developer going out of their way to buy this for themselves. My HP ProBook was cheaper, and came with a whole lot more (including SSD and 1600x900 resolution). The only improvement I'd like is a sturdier body, so will probably go for an Elitebook or Lenovo Thinkpad next time.
Craiggybear 14y ago
A nice machine, but Ubuntu is not the only fruit. I use and like it myself but as many here have already pointed out, developers will either reconfig/reinstall everything or put something completely un-Ubuntu on it. I also think its perhaps a tad overpriced given the hardware. For that money I could/may as well buy a Mac and stick Linux on a partition alongside OS X (one of the setups I have at present). Best of both worlds.
DannoHung 14y ago
What the hell is a "microcloud"?
- gosub 14y ago
  apt-get install virtualbox?
stuff4ben 14y ago
Personally I'd like 8GB RAM as a standard with the option to upgrade to 16GB. A slightly higher resolution screen would be nice too, although in that form factor it may not be possible (or cheap). It may be enough to convince me to not buy a Macbook Pro the next go around.
- fjellfras 14y ago
  The screen resolution is an issue for me as well. I think they should have been able to fit in 1440x900 in a 13.3 inch size, similar to what the larger macbook airs ship with, which makes working on two editor or IDE panes side by side somewhat possible.
  - sigkill 14y ago
    Good point. Asus manages to fit a 1920x1080 screen in the same size.
kevinherron 14y ago
I've been following this and giving feedback on the IdeaStorm site for a while now. A lot of people have the same feedback: Upgrade to ivy bridge, give it 8gb ram, give it a 1600x900 screen. Until then it's too sub-par to consider my dev machine.
justauser 14y ago
Regarding the use of LXC, I presume since it is a container you're still on the same version/release as the host which in this case is Ubuntu 12.04? So this is the new open-source lock in? When is someone going to create a tiny gui-less linux distro meant for purposes like this (local and uploaded to your hosting provider) which can then run in KVM and company? And by tiny, I don't mean Debian minimal or an equivalent Fedora. I mean a default size of probably 50MB and not much more for your choice of localization/i18n. Then simple package management to install your language platform and database support.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
durpleDrank 14y ago
Does this mean that there will be an open wifi driver coming out of this ? Will I be able to install gNewSense or trizeal on this?
gcb 14y ago
More like a "first glance" so, how it's any different than buying a xps model? Also, why do i have to be happy about paying OS tax to either MS or canonical? I hate both. Why can't i just get a machine and be done with? It's like being forced to either buy a all season DVD box of either friends or family Guy every time you buy a new TV. Sure a few people may find one option useful, but overall it's just retarded.
edwinnathaniel 14y ago
I used a Dell Latitude e6510 laptop before with 8GB RAM, standard HDD (no SSD), Intel Core 5. I was running GlassFish 3.x, WebSphere Portal Server (don't ask), DB2, Eclipse 3.4 with plugins, Chrome with multiple tabs, and a VirtualBox running Windows 7 (don't ask). Pretty damn fast. Given a reasonable price and a better battery support, and a wee bit lighter design with barebone Ubuntu + additional drivers, I'd definitely buy that machine to replace my MBP.
lumberjack 14y ago
By "developer" they really mean "newbie to-be developer". Otherwise I don't understand what's with all the emphasis on software rather than hardware, as if an experienced developer wouldn't already have a preferred developing enviroment and wouldn't already know how to set it up. And the price tag is outrageous even from the perspective of a to-be developer that values having everything setup before hand.
- Roboprog 14y ago
  Right on about the price. I recently picked up a MacBook, for a good deal less than $1500, and while it doesn't have an SSD drive, the rest of the specs beat out the Dell. Of course, now I'm just sitting on the couch with my little Acer netbook running Ubuntu. Getting a newer, slightly larger keyboard netbook would have put me in driver hell, thus, the Mac.
mindcrime 14y ago
As long as it will run Fedora, I might be tempted to buy one. And if the hardware is "linux compatible" enough for Ubuntu, I'm guessing Fedora will run just fine on it as well. I hope so anyway...
- plessthanpt05 14y ago
  > guessing Fedora will run just fine on it as well hmmm...not sure about this assumption. i would def assume so w/ debian or derivative distro, but fedora?...not so sure about that.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  I'd imagine so - there's very little incompatibility of this sort between different Linux distros, and when it happens, it's almost always because of bad developing practices (ie, system-dependent compilation of a closed-source binary... statically compiled binaries are binary-compatible, and if it's open source it can be patched). The only thing that could be a problem are the drivers, but if those are open source, you bet there'll be a patched package for any mainstream distro, and even closed-source drivers on Linux these days are very good. I can't remember the last time I ran into driver problems. What's more likely is fundamental limitations of the hardware itself, rather than the drivers, but that won't be a problem here.
skadamat 14y ago
Hahahah what a joke. 1,500 for a laptop like this
bsphil 14y ago
>i7 2GHz Intel Core2 Duo processor A what?
- bicknergseng 14y ago
  I did a double take, too. No the real question is who made the mistake... just the editor, or did it propagate all the way down from some hapless Dell spokesperson?
sequoia 14y ago
"Developer profiles"? What does that mean? It will install node && jshint && vim for me or what? What I want out of a linux ready laptop from Dell (or anyone): 1. Make the hardware and OS play nice. 2. Nothing I can do the rest just please make the display, media keys, battery, drives, etc. work flawlessly. Profiles & all that stuff are no selling point at all.
- tedmiston 14y ago
  Hopefully developer profiles will come to mean something like a developer version of Ninite to configure and install common apps, frameworks, and libraries in literally just a few clicks. This is often a long, painful process that is all too familar, and should be totally automated.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    On Linux it's a matter of writing a one-line shell script to automate that process. I wrote such a script to reinstall packages after doing a clean install of Ubuntu, and it was entirely painless.
    - ninetax 14y ago
      That's pretty useful, do you think I could get a copy of that"?
  - chimeracoder 14y ago
    I've never used Ninite once... shouldn't your package manager take care of this for you?
  - heretohelp 14y ago
    It would appear you've never used Linux in the last 5-10 years. sudo apt-get install nodejs npm sudo apt-get install django
    - gamzer 14y ago
jiggy2011 14y ago
1366x768? My old P4 laptop had 1400x1050 (or something very close) At least 8GB RAM , 15" 1600x1200 screen , a proper mechanical keyboard and a blank SSD. Now that would be a developer laptop.
mey 14y ago
Was talking to a dell rep the other day at OSCON, (they gave away 3), they are looking to get the vendor specific drivers upstream but don't have a timeline for it.
chimeracoder 14y ago
Have they announced when this will be available for purchase? I was considering getting an XPS 13 Ultrabook now, but it sounds like it won't be a long wait for the Sputnik?
ori_b 14y ago
Just get me a laptop with better battery life and a higher resolution screen. Give it a better keyboard (none of that chicklet crap). Make it play well with open source drivers. And that's it. I don't want extra software. I don't want profiles. I just want something that works out of the box with any recent Linux I throw at it.
- dman 14y ago
  Thats approximately the exact feedback I gave when I signed up for the Project Sputnik beta - better keyboard, working suspend resume, rock solid wifi drivers, use slower processors if that means better battery life and improved thermals and a great screen resolution ( >= 1600x1200 ). Do that and get out of the way, dont try to add lock in on top of that.
pnathan 14y ago
Hmmm. What I, in particular, would pay for, is for Dell to have a repository of reliable & tested drivers that they maintain for that particular hardware setup. That way I could simply install a (relatively) standard distro (gentoo, debian, red hat, arch, etc), and have a very high confidence that the drivers worked seamlessly.
makmanalp 14y ago
> "The Sputnik will allow developers to create “microclouds” on their laptops, simulating a proper, at-scale environment, and then deploy that environment seamlessly to the cloud. George explained it would use LXC virtual environments containers for the microclouds. These cloud applications can then be deployed to Ubuntu instances running on the Amazon, OpenStack, bare-metal with Management as a Service (MAAS), and, eventually, Microsoft Azure clouds. " Jesus. Can I just have a laptop, please? I don't think they understand that their target market is going to wipe whatever they put on there and reinstall their own. Or at least reconfigure the crap out of it. It's like our house, you can't just dump whatever you like into our environment.
- davidbrent 14y ago
  Or maybe their target market is in an environment where developers don't get to just wipe their machines, and rather have to work on the same image as everyone else.
  - omh 14y ago
    But for a corporate environment the image comes from the IT department, not from Dell.
stupidhurts 14y ago
give me a t42 with a 2nd gen i7 then stfu. why is this so hard?
peterwwillis 14y ago
Holy shit. They replaced a journalist with a buzzword machine.
typicalrunt 14y ago
It's a laptop targeted at developers and they give a measly 4GB of RAM? I hope it's upgradeable. I like to run VMs and other developer-ish applications, some of which use up a lot of RAM. But on the top of my priority list is a good battery. Drop in an 8-10 hour battery and I'm ready to buy.
accountswu 14y ago
This 1366 x 768 is worse than what Lenovo offered more than four years ago. In 2008 Lenovo came out with X300, a 13" 3lb laptop with DVD drive built-in and 1400 x 900 resolution. It was priced about the same as a 13" Macbook Air, it had lesser battery time than MB Air, slightly more weight, but it had optical drive in that weight, replaceable battery and it came with plenty of ports (USB, VGA, LAN). Too bad they don't make any 13" ones any more (X1 doesn't count, it is not a true Thinkpad). They replaced it with the 14" 4lb T400s (1400 x 900), then T410s (1400 x 900), T420s (1600 x 900) and newly announced T430s. I think many developers would want to get an X330 with i7 and 1600 x 900 at 3lbs.
sharms 14y ago
As someone who loves Ubuntu, this would be a great laptop except for the resolution. Screens matter, especially for developers who will be using it day in day out. In my experience 1366x768 has been a rough resolution to work at, and the panels themselves are not very high quality. In comparison to the Thinkpad and Macbook lines, it is a hard sell.
brunoqc 14y ago
Anyone knows if Dell is done selecting people for the Sputnick program? I'm waiting to buy a new laptop and I would hate to be selected a couple of days after I order one.
well-duh 14y ago
Agree with several other commenters. My priorities, most important first, are: 0. Everything must work with a free OS without requiring binary blobs. 1. A good full-sized keyboard with a sane layout, preferably mechanical with blue Cherry switches (hey, a guy can dream) even if this adds a few millimeters and a few ounces. If this is impossible, the bare minimum is the equivalent to last year's Thinkpad keyboard. I was all set to buy a Thinkpad this year, but they lost me when they dropped the traditional keyboard. I tried their new chicklet keyboard in a store and... well, it's a chicklet keyboard. 2. 15 inches Macbook-like quality screen with at least 1920x1200 resolution. 3. Fast SSD and at least 8GB ram, expandable of course.
codex 14y ago
This illustrates a key problem selling Linux. Linux hardware = commodity. Linux software = commodity. commodity + commodity = commodity. There's no differentiator here, for anyone. You might as well put a pinstripe on it, or tint the windows, or put on a Type-R muffler: in the end it's still a Honda Accord. The best you can do is make sure that Linux runs well on your hardware, but as the hardware is a commodity, that's not much of a differentiator. And for sleep/wake issues you may not have the skills to make Linux work well on a laptop, because nobody does. This problem also exists with Android, but in the mobile space handset makers are having some success differentiating on hardware and adding custom UI. IBM makes a good chunk of change on Linux, but their model (admitting their solution isn't turn-key and charging a bunch of money on customization) doesn't work for laptops. And, of course, it offers no incentive to actually create turn-key software.
- ori_b 14y ago
  > This illustrates a key problem selling Linux. Linux hardware = commodity. Linux software = commodity. commodity + commodity = commodity. Sure, I don't disagree. I just don't see how the situation is different from Windows. Selling Wintel boxes is a low margin business, and it seems that selling Lintel boxes will be in the same boat.
nicholassmith 14y ago
That screen resolution spoils it. Devs like designers appreciate the additional pixels.

40 points by tanglesome 14y ago

I presume that Dell are aiming to make a killing from less-informed buyers such as bosses at small companies (I have no idea how this might work at large companies), and parents for their kids interested in programming. Given how many people buy Dell, the "developer" tag will carry a lot of weight. I certainly can't see any developer going out of their way to buy this for themselves. My HP ProBook was cheaper, and came with a whole lot more (including SSD and 1600x900 resolution). The only improvement I'd like is a sturdier body, so will probably go for an Elitebook or Lenovo Thinkpad next time.

Craiggybear 14y ago

A nice machine, but Ubuntu is not the only fruit. I use and like it myself but as many here have already pointed out, developers will either reconfig/reinstall everything or put something completely un-Ubuntu on it. I also think its perhaps a tad overpriced given the hardware. For that money I could/may as well buy a Mac and stick Linux on a partition alongside OS X (one of the setups I have at present). Best of both worlds.

DannoHung 14y ago

What the hell is a "microcloud"?

gosub 14y ago
apt-get install virtualbox?

stuff4ben 14y ago

Personally I'd like 8GB RAM as a standard with the option to upgrade to 16GB. A slightly higher resolution screen would be nice too, although in that form factor it may not be possible (or cheap). It may be enough to convince me to not buy a Macbook Pro the next go around.

fjellfras 14y ago
The screen resolution is an issue for me as well. I think they should have been able to fit in 1440x900 in a 13.3 inch size, similar to what the larger macbook airs ship with, which makes working on two editor or IDE panes side by side somewhat possible.
- sigkill 14y ago
  Good point. Asus manages to fit a 1920x1080 screen in the same size.

kevinherron 14y ago

I've been following this and giving feedback on the IdeaStorm site for a while now. A lot of people have the same feedback: Upgrade to ivy bridge, give it 8gb ram, give it a 1600x900 screen. Until then it's too sub-par to consider my dev machine.

justauser 14y ago

Regarding the use of LXC, I presume since it is a container you're still on the same version/release as the host which in this case is Ubuntu 12.04? So this is the new open-source lock in? When is someone going to create a tiny gui-less linux distro meant for purposes like this (local and uploaded to your hosting provider) which can then run in KVM and company? And by tiny, I don't mean Debian minimal or an equivalent Fedora. I mean a default size of probably 50MB and not much more for your choice of localization/i18n. Then simple package management to install your language platform and database support.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

durpleDrank 14y ago

Does this mean that there will be an open wifi driver coming out of this ? Will I be able to install gNewSense or trizeal on this?

gcb 14y ago

More like a "first glance" so, how it's any different than buying a xps model? Also, why do i have to be happy about paying OS tax to either MS or canonical? I hate both. Why can't i just get a machine and be done with? It's like being forced to either buy a all season DVD box of either friends or family Guy every time you buy a new TV. Sure a few people may find one option useful, but overall it's just retarded.

edwinnathaniel 14y ago

I used a Dell Latitude e6510 laptop before with 8GB RAM, standard HDD (no SSD), Intel Core 5. I was running GlassFish 3.x, WebSphere Portal Server (don't ask), DB2, Eclipse 3.4 with plugins, Chrome with multiple tabs, and a VirtualBox running Windows 7 (don't ask). Pretty damn fast. Given a reasonable price and a better battery support, and a wee bit lighter design with barebone Ubuntu + additional drivers, I'd definitely buy that machine to replace my MBP.

lumberjack 14y ago

By "developer" they really mean "newbie to-be developer". Otherwise I don't understand what's with all the emphasis on software rather than hardware, as if an experienced developer wouldn't already have a preferred developing enviroment and wouldn't already know how to set it up. And the price tag is outrageous even from the perspective of a to-be developer that values having everything setup before hand.

Roboprog 14y ago
Right on about the price. I recently picked up a MacBook, for a good deal less than $1500, and while it doesn't have an SSD drive, the rest of the specs beat out the Dell. Of course, now I'm just sitting on the couch with my little Acer netbook running Ubuntu. Getting a newer, slightly larger keyboard netbook would have put me in driver hell, thus, the Mac.

mindcrime 14y ago

As long as it will run Fedora, I might be tempted to buy one. And if the hardware is "linux compatible" enough for Ubuntu, I'm guessing Fedora will run just fine on it as well. I hope so anyway...

plessthanpt05 14y ago
> guessing Fedora will run just fine on it as well hmmm...not sure about this assumption. i would def assume so w/ debian or derivative distro, but fedora?...not so sure about that.
chimeracoder 14y ago
I'd imagine so - there's very little incompatibility of this sort between different Linux distros, and when it happens, it's almost always because of bad developing practices (ie, system-dependent compilation of a closed-source binary... statically compiled binaries are binary-compatible, and if it's open source it can be patched). The only thing that could be a problem are the drivers, but if those are open source, you bet there'll be a patched package for any mainstream distro, and even closed-source drivers on Linux these days are very good. I can't remember the last time I ran into driver problems. What's more likely is fundamental limitations of the hardware itself, rather than the drivers, but that won't be a problem here.

skadamat 14y ago

Hahahah what a joke. 1,500 for a laptop like this

bsphil 14y ago

>i7 2GHz Intel Core2 Duo processor A what?

bicknergseng 14y ago
I did a double take, too. No the real question is who made the mistake... just the editor, or did it propagate all the way down from some hapless Dell spokesperson?

sequoia 14y ago

"Developer profiles"? What does that mean? It will install node && jshint && vim for me or what? What I want out of a linux ready laptop from Dell (or anyone): 1. Make the hardware and OS play nice. 2. Nothing I can do the rest just please make the display, media keys, battery, drives, etc. work flawlessly. Profiles & all that stuff are no selling point at all.

tedmiston 14y ago
Hopefully developer profiles will come to mean something like a developer version of Ninite to configure and install common apps, frameworks, and libraries in literally just a few clicks. This is often a long, painful process that is all too familar, and should be totally automated.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  On Linux it's a matter of writing a one-line shell script to automate that process. I wrote such a script to reinstall packages after doing a clean install of Ubuntu, and it was entirely painless.
  - ninetax 14y ago
    That's pretty useful, do you think I could get a copy of that"?
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  I've never used Ninite once... shouldn't your package manager take care of this for you?
- heretohelp 14y ago
  It would appear you've never used Linux in the last 5-10 years. sudo apt-get install nodejs npm sudo apt-get install django
  - gamzer 14y ago

jiggy2011 14y ago

1366x768? My old P4 laptop had 1400x1050 (or something very close) At least 8GB RAM , 15" 1600x1200 screen , a proper mechanical keyboard and a blank SSD. Now that would be a developer laptop.

mey 14y ago

Was talking to a dell rep the other day at OSCON, (they gave away 3), they are looking to get the vendor specific drivers upstream but don't have a timeline for it.

chimeracoder 14y ago

Have they announced when this will be available for purchase? I was considering getting an XPS 13 Ultrabook now, but it sounds like it won't be a long wait for the Sputnik?

ori_b 14y ago

Just get me a laptop with better battery life and a higher resolution screen. Give it a better keyboard (none of that chicklet crap). Make it play well with open source drivers. And that's it. I don't want extra software. I don't want profiles. I just want something that works out of the box with any recent Linux I throw at it.

dman 14y ago
Thats approximately the exact feedback I gave when I signed up for the Project Sputnik beta - better keyboard, working suspend resume, rock solid wifi drivers, use slower processors if that means better battery life and improved thermals and a great screen resolution ( >= 1600x1200 ). Do that and get out of the way, dont try to add lock in on top of that.

pnathan 14y ago

Hmmm. What I, in particular, would pay for, is for Dell to have a repository of reliable & tested drivers that they maintain for that particular hardware setup. That way I could simply install a (relatively) standard distro (gentoo, debian, red hat, arch, etc), and have a very high confidence that the drivers worked seamlessly.

makmanalp 14y ago

> "The Sputnik will allow developers to create “microclouds” on their laptops, simulating a proper, at-scale environment, and then deploy that environment seamlessly to the cloud. George explained it would use LXC virtual environments containers for the microclouds. These cloud applications can then be deployed to Ubuntu instances running on the Amazon, OpenStack, bare-metal with Management as a Service (MAAS), and, eventually, Microsoft Azure clouds. " Jesus. Can I just have a laptop, please? I don't think they understand that their target market is going to wipe whatever they put on there and reinstall their own. Or at least reconfigure the crap out of it. It's like our house, you can't just dump whatever you like into our environment.

davidbrent 14y ago
Or maybe their target market is in an environment where developers don't get to just wipe their machines, and rather have to work on the same image as everyone else.
- omh 14y ago
  But for a corporate environment the image comes from the IT department, not from Dell.

stupidhurts 14y ago

give me a t42 with a 2nd gen i7 then stfu. why is this so hard?

peterwwillis 14y ago

Holy shit. They replaced a journalist with a buzzword machine.

typicalrunt 14y ago

It's a laptop targeted at developers and they give a measly 4GB of RAM? I hope it's upgradeable. I like to run VMs and other developer-ish applications, some of which use up a lot of RAM. But on the top of my priority list is a good battery. Drop in an 8-10 hour battery and I'm ready to buy.

accountswu 14y ago

This 1366 x 768 is worse than what Lenovo offered more than four years ago. In 2008 Lenovo came out with X300, a 13" 3lb laptop with DVD drive built-in and 1400 x 900 resolution. It was priced about the same as a 13" Macbook Air, it had lesser battery time than MB Air, slightly more weight, but it had optical drive in that weight, replaceable battery and it came with plenty of ports (USB, VGA, LAN). Too bad they don't make any 13" ones any more (X1 doesn't count, it is not a true Thinkpad). They replaced it with the 14" 4lb T400s (1400 x 900), then T410s (1400 x 900), T420s (1600 x 900) and newly announced T430s. I think many developers would want to get an X330 with i7 and 1600 x 900 at 3lbs.

sharms 14y ago

As someone who loves Ubuntu, this would be a great laptop except for the resolution. Screens matter, especially for developers who will be using it day in day out. In my experience 1366x768 has been a rough resolution to work at, and the panels themselves are not very high quality. In comparison to the Thinkpad and Macbook lines, it is a hard sell.

brunoqc 14y ago

Anyone knows if Dell is done selecting people for the Sputnick program? I'm waiting to buy a new laptop and I would hate to be selected a couple of days after I order one.

well-duh 14y ago

Agree with several other commenters. My priorities, most important first, are: 0. Everything must work with a free OS without requiring binary blobs. 1. A good full-sized keyboard with a sane layout, preferably mechanical with blue Cherry switches (hey, a guy can dream) even if this adds a few millimeters and a few ounces. If this is impossible, the bare minimum is the equivalent to last year's Thinkpad keyboard. I was all set to buy a Thinkpad this year, but they lost me when they dropped the traditional keyboard. I tried their new chicklet keyboard in a store and... well, it's a chicklet keyboard. 2. 15 inches Macbook-like quality screen with at least 1920x1200 resolution. 3. Fast SSD and at least 8GB ram, expandable of course.

codex 14y ago

This illustrates a key problem selling Linux. Linux hardware = commodity. Linux software = commodity. commodity + commodity = commodity. There's no differentiator here, for anyone. You might as well put a pinstripe on it, or tint the windows, or put on a Type-R muffler: in the end it's still a Honda Accord. The best you can do is make sure that Linux runs well on your hardware, but as the hardware is a commodity, that's not much of a differentiator. And for sleep/wake issues you may not have the skills to make Linux work well on a laptop, because nobody does. This problem also exists with Android, but in the mobile space handset makers are having some success differentiating on hardware and adding custom UI. IBM makes a good chunk of change on Linux, but their model (admitting their solution isn't turn-key and charging a bunch of money on customization) doesn't work for laptops. And, of course, it offers no incentive to actually create turn-key software.

ori_b 14y ago
> This illustrates a key problem selling Linux. Linux hardware = commodity. Linux software = commodity. commodity + commodity = commodity. Sure, I don't disagree. I just don't see how the situation is different from Windows. Selling Wintel boxes is a low margin business, and it seems that selling Lintel boxes will be in the same boat.

nicholassmith 14y ago

That screen resolution spoils it. Devs like designers appreciate the additional pixels.