5 ms·

> The outcome of the shutdown would be different from that mandated by the law. The law would mandate a ban only on new TikTok downloads on Apple or Google app

by abeppu 2y ago

> The outcome of the shutdown would be different from that mandated by the law. The law would mandate a ban only on new TikTok downloads on Apple or Google app stores, while existing users could continue using it for some time. Does anyone have thoughts on why TikTok would choose to stop for existing users? I.e. why would they choose to do more than the minimum required by the law? It's nice that they want to point people to a way to download their data, but they could also keep showing videos after notifying people of that option. What's the rationale here?

voxic11 2y ago
The downloading your data thing is actually part of what is required by law.
sneak 2y ago
Drawing attention to the stupidity and agenda-driven approach of the USG by causing pain to millions of users, is my guess.
dylan604 2y ago
The obvious play would be to incite those active users to take action by letting their congress critters know their opinions in an effort to have them reverse their vote
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  those plays can easily backfire - like when tiktok first did it although there are success cases, like prop 22 in california and uber
  - dylan604 2y ago
    The threat of losing something vs actually losing something is not the same though. If TikTok did something with all of the tracking data they did for each user so they could show the contact information for their Rep and Senators to make it easy for everyone with clickable links directly to phone numbers/emails would increase that engagement. It would also just show how creepy AF their tracking is. So maybe just a screen like PH does that refuses access to their content with a screen that says talk to your reps.
    - whimsicalism 2y ago
      no, i think the negative reaction in political places would be exactly the same if they did this again https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/krishnamoorthi-gallagher-tiktok-bill-calls-children/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/krishnamoorthi-gallagher-ti...
      - dylan604 2y ago
        again, I think you are not considering the loyalty to the incoming president and that his party now controls both houses of Congress.
        whimsicalism 2y ago
        > again you didn’t mention anything about either of those two points in your previous comments, but sure
        dylan604 2y ago
        Sure I did, just not to you directly. Read the full thread and the time stamps
        whimsicalism 2y ago
        not sure how you expect me to take into account things you are saying in different threads after i made my original comment
- abeppu 2y ago
  They did try that last year though it did generate a lot of calls in absolute terms and it didn't actually work as political pressure for them to vote against the ban. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/07/tiktok-users-protest-congress-potential-ban https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/07/tiktok-us... Getting congress to reverse something seems much harder, in that they also have to get someone to introduce the bill, get it through a committee, get it scheduled for a vote, etc, in both houses.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    > Getting congress to reverse something seems much harder, The GOP is absolutely flip flopping on this issue since Trump has also reversed on the ban idea. That's why the TikTok lawyers' arguments to SCOTUS were to just delay the ban until after Jan 20 so the incoming administration could weigh in on the matter. > in that they also have to get someone to introduce the bill, get it through a committee, get it scheduled for a vote, etc, in both houses. I think you are forgetting that the GOP just took control of both houses. It will not be that difficult for them is that's what the orange man says he wants.
    - abeppu 2y ago
      If there's an escape hatch, I think it's more likely that Trump directs the DOJ to defer enforcement, first temporarily. Some deal will be made where Trump stipulates some stuff about content moderation, including removing TikTok's ban on political ads. Once TikTok has agreed to act like X, Trump can direct the DOJ to delay enforcement indefinitely, but keeping the law on the books as a sword of damocles to keep leverage.
- Nemo_bis 2y ago
  The Reuters article already states this will happen: > If it is banned, TikTok plans that users attempting to open the app will see a pop-up message directing them to a website with information about the ban, the people said, requesting anonymity as the matter is not public.
MarkMarine 2y ago
Political pressure. There are more Americans on TikTok than voted in the last election. I think the parent company is calculating that they can draw attention to the government taking away something the users love and turn that into political pressure to undo the law. We’ll see what happens, but I’d imagine they are right. Taking away the opiate of the masses has not worked out for governments in the past.
- zeroonetwothree 2y ago
  Many of those users are not eligible to vote.
  - hengistbury 2y ago
    People in the US have the right to petition the Government, regardless of their eligibility to vote.
- MarkMarine 2y ago
  And I think I’ve been proven correct
stonesthrowaway 2y ago
> Does anyone have thoughts on why TikTok would choose to stop for existing users? What business would choose to keep operating if it can't gain new customers? Think about it. The law makes it impossible for tiktok to grow or be profitable. What advertiser would be interested in a platform that will lose users every day and won't gain more in the future? The law was sneakily and intentially written to outright ban tiktok. It would be like congress creating a law saying you specifically cannot buy more gas. You can keep using the gas in the car, but you can't fill up your tank anymore. Would you spend thousands to fix your car? Change the oil or the tire? No. You'd either sell the damn thing or just throw it away.
- Invictus0 2y ago
  Would you throw away a $100B asset? If TikTok was just a business and not an arm of the CCP then they would not be shutting down.
  - teqsun 2y ago
    It's not being thrown away, it will work as normal in every other country except the United States.
    - Invictus0 2y ago
      I wonder how many countries you need to have to match the united states' revenue
- montag 2y ago
  Waiting for Trump to take office to cut a deal.
simoncion 2y ago
> Does anyone have thoughts on why TikTok would choose to stop for existing users? For the same reason Google or Facebook or many other major players might choose to stop operating in a jurisdiction that's trying to impose restrictions on them that they feel are unconscionable, rather than knuckling under? The "national security" angle that FedGov is attempting to hang this all on is pretty bullshit... defense contractors that do classified work for the DoD can be foreign owned!

by abeppu 2y ago

voxic11 2y ago

The downloading your data thing is actually part of what is required by law.

sneak 2y ago

Drawing attention to the stupidity and agenda-driven approach of the USG by causing pain to millions of users, is my guess.

dylan604 2y ago

The obvious play would be to incite those active users to take action by letting their congress critters know their opinions in an effort to have them reverse their vote

whimsicalism 2y ago
those plays can easily backfire - like when tiktok first did it although there are success cases, like prop 22 in california and uber
- dylan604 2y ago
  The threat of losing something vs actually losing something is not the same though. If TikTok did something with all of the tracking data they did for each user so they could show the contact information for their Rep and Senators to make it easy for everyone with clickable links directly to phone numbers/emails would increase that engagement. It would also just show how creepy AF their tracking is. So maybe just a screen like PH does that refuses access to their content with a screen that says talk to your reps.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    no, i think the negative reaction in political places would be exactly the same if they did this again https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/krishnamoorthi-gallagher-tiktok-bill-calls-children/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/krishnamoorthi-gallagher-ti...
    - dylan604 2y ago
      again, I think you are not considering the loyalty to the incoming president and that his party now controls both houses of Congress.
      - whimsicalism 2y ago
        > again you didn’t mention anything about either of those two points in your previous comments, but sure
        dylan604 2y ago
        Sure I did, just not to you directly. Read the full thread and the time stamps
        whimsicalism 2y ago
        not sure how you expect me to take into account things you are saying in different threads after i made my original comment
abeppu 2y ago
They did try that last year though it did generate a lot of calls in absolute terms and it didn't actually work as political pressure for them to vote against the ban. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/07/tiktok-users-protest-congress-potential-ban https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/07/tiktok-us... Getting congress to reverse something seems much harder, in that they also have to get someone to introduce the bill, get it through a committee, get it scheduled for a vote, etc, in both houses.
- dylan604 2y ago
  > Getting congress to reverse something seems much harder, The GOP is absolutely flip flopping on this issue since Trump has also reversed on the ban idea. That's why the TikTok lawyers' arguments to SCOTUS were to just delay the ban until after Jan 20 so the incoming administration could weigh in on the matter. > in that they also have to get someone to introduce the bill, get it through a committee, get it scheduled for a vote, etc, in both houses. I think you are forgetting that the GOP just took control of both houses. It will not be that difficult for them is that's what the orange man says he wants.
  - abeppu 2y ago
    If there's an escape hatch, I think it's more likely that Trump directs the DOJ to defer enforcement, first temporarily. Some deal will be made where Trump stipulates some stuff about content moderation, including removing TikTok's ban on political ads. Once TikTok has agreed to act like X, Trump can direct the DOJ to delay enforcement indefinitely, but keeping the law on the books as a sword of damocles to keep leverage.
Nemo_bis 2y ago
The Reuters article already states this will happen: > If it is banned, TikTok plans that users attempting to open the app will see a pop-up message directing them to a website with information about the ban, the people said, requesting anonymity as the matter is not public.

MarkMarine 2y ago

Political pressure. There are more Americans on TikTok than voted in the last election. I think the parent company is calculating that they can draw attention to the government taking away something the users love and turn that into political pressure to undo the law. We’ll see what happens, but I’d imagine they are right. Taking away the opiate of the masses has not worked out for governments in the past.

zeroonetwothree 2y ago
Many of those users are not eligible to vote.
- hengistbury 2y ago
  People in the US have the right to petition the Government, regardless of their eligibility to vote.
MarkMarine 2y ago
And I think I’ve been proven correct

stonesthrowaway 2y ago

> Does anyone have thoughts on why TikTok would choose to stop for existing users? What business would choose to keep operating if it can't gain new customers? Think about it. The law makes it impossible for tiktok to grow or be profitable. What advertiser would be interested in a platform that will lose users every day and won't gain more in the future? The law was sneakily and intentially written to outright ban tiktok. It would be like congress creating a law saying you specifically cannot buy more gas. You can keep using the gas in the car, but you can't fill up your tank anymore. Would you spend thousands to fix your car? Change the oil or the tire? No. You'd either sell the damn thing or just throw it away.

Invictus0 2y ago
Would you throw away a $100B asset? If TikTok was just a business and not an arm of the CCP then they would not be shutting down.
- teqsun 2y ago
  It's not being thrown away, it will work as normal in every other country except the United States.
  - Invictus0 2y ago
    I wonder how many countries you need to have to match the united states' revenue
montag 2y ago
Waiting for Trump to take office to cut a deal.

simoncion 2y ago

> Does anyone have thoughts on why TikTok would choose to stop for existing users? For the same reason Google or Facebook or many other major players might choose to stop operating in a jurisdiction that's trying to impose restrictions on them that they feel are unconscionable, rather than knuckling under? The "national security" angle that FedGov is attempting to hang this all on is pretty bullshit... defense contractors that do classified work for the DoD can be foreign owned!