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Sabine Hossenfelder is a physicist, she's not an expert on mental health. She might be right, she might be wrong, but she isn't a source of truth. The chart wi

Sabine Hossenfelder is a physicist, she's not an expert on mental health. She might be right, she might be wrong, but she isn't a source of truth. The chart with the number of suicides for children going up is not a moral panic, but a grim reality.

xNeil 2y ago
The moral panic is social media being the reason for the suicides going up, not the fact that suicides are going up in itself.
NoGravitas 2y ago
Right, but correlation does not equal causation. Kids are also increasingly aware that they live in a neoliberal hellworld, and their chances of maintaining the lifestyles their parents and grandparents had are slim to none.
- grapesodaaaaa 2y ago
  I’m losing family members to conspiracy theory YouTube channels. The crackpots had a greater barrier to transmit back in the day. They had to get an FCC license or know someone with a radio station. Even then reach was limited unless you could reach a deal to transmit nationwide. I personally believe our brains are primed on some level to buy into this stuff. It’s very hard to overcome.
  - noboostforyou 2y ago
    I agree completely, social media is essentially a dopamine addiction. Steve Jobs had an apt quote regarding what you said "our brains are primed on some level to buy into this stuff." > When you’re young, you look at television and think, There’s a conspiracy. The networks have conspired to dumb us down. But when you get a little older, you realize that’s not true. The networks are in business to give people exactly what they want. That’s a far more depressing thought. Conspiracy is optimistic! You can shoot the bastards! We can have a revolution! But the networks are really in business to give people what they want. It’s the truth.
zeroonetwothree 2y ago
Suicides were higher in the 1980s than now. I’m pretty sure we didn’t have any apps back then.
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  The cause might be different, 1980s were 45 years ago. Half a century ago. The causes for suicide might've changed in the last 50 years. Also, the number of children suicides was in a downtrend before it went up again: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/05/03/suicide-rates-for-girls-are-rising-are-smartphones-to-blame https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/05/03/suicide-...
noboostforyou 2y ago
> she's not an expert on mental health. She might be right, she might be wrong, but she isn't a source of truth. It's FB but for the purpose of studying effects of social media on mental health it should suffice: https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-toxic-for-teen-girls-company-documents-show-11631620739 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-tox... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/14/facebook-aware-instagram-harmful-effect-teenage-girls-leak-reveals https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/14/facebook-... https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-internal-report-shows-instagram-bad-for-teens-2021-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-internal-report-sho... https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/how-social-medias-toxic-content-sends-teens-into-a-dangerous-spiral/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/how-social-medias-toxic-conten...
jstummbillig 2y ago
And correlation is not causation. If you disagree with her interpretation (it's mostly just presentation, really) of the data, feel free to be specific. Attacking the person is, as always, bad form and lame.
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  I haven't attacked Sabine, it was OP who used her as some some sort of authority in children mental health.

xNeil 2y ago

The moral panic is social media being the reason for the suicides going up, not the fact that suicides are going up in itself.

NoGravitas 2y ago

Right, but correlation does not equal causation. Kids are also increasingly aware that they live in a neoliberal hellworld, and their chances of maintaining the lifestyles their parents and grandparents had are slim to none.

grapesodaaaaa 2y ago
I’m losing family members to conspiracy theory YouTube channels. The crackpots had a greater barrier to transmit back in the day. They had to get an FCC license or know someone with a radio station. Even then reach was limited unless you could reach a deal to transmit nationwide. I personally believe our brains are primed on some level to buy into this stuff. It’s very hard to overcome.
- noboostforyou 2y ago
  I agree completely, social media is essentially a dopamine addiction. Steve Jobs had an apt quote regarding what you said "our brains are primed on some level to buy into this stuff." > When you’re young, you look at television and think, There’s a conspiracy. The networks have conspired to dumb us down. But when you get a little older, you realize that’s not true. The networks are in business to give people exactly what they want. That’s a far more depressing thought. Conspiracy is optimistic! You can shoot the bastards! We can have a revolution! But the networks are really in business to give people what they want. It’s the truth.

zeroonetwothree 2y ago

Suicides were higher in the 1980s than now. I’m pretty sure we didn’t have any apps back then.

GeoAtreides 2y ago
The cause might be different, 1980s were 45 years ago. Half a century ago. The causes for suicide might've changed in the last 50 years. Also, the number of children suicides was in a downtrend before it went up again: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6630a6.htm https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/05/03/suicide-rates-for-girls-are-rising-are-smartphones-to-blame https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/05/03/suicide-...

noboostforyou 2y ago

> she's not an expert on mental health. She might be right, she might be wrong, but she isn't a source of truth. It's FB but for the purpose of studying effects of social media on mental health it should suffice: https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-toxic-for-teen-girls-company-documents-show-11631620739 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-tox... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/14/facebook-aware-instagram-harmful-effect-teenage-girls-leak-reveals https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/14/facebook-... https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-internal-report-shows-instagram-bad-for-teens-2021-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-internal-report-sho... https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/how-social-medias-toxic-content-sends-teens-into-a-dangerous-spiral/ https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/how-social-medias-toxic-conten...

jstummbillig 2y ago

And correlation is not causation. If you disagree with her interpretation (it's mostly just presentation, really) of the data, feel free to be specific. Attacking the person is, as always, bad form and lame.

GeoAtreides 2y ago
I haven't attacked Sabine, it was OP who used her as some some sort of authority in children mental health.