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Its clear to anyone that's looking that what's happening in Gaza is a genocide

Philpax 2y ago
For example, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
- grumple 2y ago
  Wikipedia is the subject of a very large pro-Palestinian propaganda campaign: https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-editors-hijacked-the-israel-palestine-narrative https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit... And they have banned several of those involved, though obviously each of the thousands who participated should be banned: https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/article-833180 https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/article-833180
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    What about the groups linked in the wikipedia article: Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the UN Special Committee to investigate Israeli practices and the United Nations Special Rapporteur ? Those seem less biased sources than The Jerusalem Post
    - grumple 2y ago
      The source here isn't the JP, it's wikipedia. Wikipedia investigated and banned the editors. JP is just the reporter. You can find other news sites with the same news, or Wikipedia itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_and_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_and_the_Israeli%E2%8... Those human rights groups, unfortunately, have a long history of bias and foreign influence. The closer they are to the UN, the more political they are. Literally half of the UN's resolutions pertain to Israel - while 99.999% of war deaths, famine, modern slavery, etc, happen without Israel being involved. The UN was led by a literal Nazi in the 70s - Kurt Waldheim - and the last few UN Secretary Generals have said that there is a serious bias against Israel there (obvious from the obsession).
  - dttze 2y ago
    Israel has whole government and military orgs dedicated to hasbara and advancing Israeli and Zionist interests. The editors were banned for organizing people around a vote. You going to pretend Israel doesn’t coordinate about the same things?
    - grumple 2y ago
      Literally every government has people who go on social media or provide press reports. Only when Israel is involved do you start talking about it like it’s a conspiracy. Please reflect on that for a while. Meanwhile Iran and Russia have literally been caught manipulating Reddit and TikTok. And you’re literally replying to evidence of the pro-Palestinian crowd doing the same in violation of Wikipedia’s terms of use.
      - dttze 2y ago
        Literally every organized group has people who go on social media. Only when Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims do the same thing as Israel do you consider it biased and wrong. Please reflect on why you think that. Meanwhile, Israel and the US have literally been caught manipulating Reddit and TikTok. And you’re literally replying to evidence of Israeli hasbara and US willingness to ban sites in support of that hasbara.
        grumple 2y ago
        "No you" is not really a good argument here. Israel does not have an organized campaign to modify wikipedia, like what the pro-Palestine crowd does. And scale matters: there are 15 million Jews globally, 2 billion Muslims, 1.4 billion Chinese, 90 million Iranians. This is not a level playing field; manpower matters in swaying public opinion. And factually - Israel is an American-aligned democracy and has substantially more freedoms than China, Iran, Russia, and the Muslim world, and is not working to destroy all of those places the way that those places are working to destroy the west and all US influence. It's just "Jews control the media" using the cover word of Israel instead. Obviously untrue - if it were, then social media and wikipedia would be dominated by pro-Israel narratives, rather than the other way around, which is what is actually reality. Banning a propaganda tool used by China, Russia, and Iran, which is also used to collect our data, is not hasbara. It's just wise behavior to stop your enemies from disrupting your population. Anyway, hasbara means "explanation". Use of this as condemnation is basically somewhere between "foreign word bad" and "Jews bad".
grumple 2y ago
[flagged]
- ignoramous 2y ago
  > No, it really isn't. I wonder what you know about Genocide better than experts in Holocaust studies and other genocides themselves. William Schabas, author of the 741-page textbook, "Genocide in International Law" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. John Quigley, author of the 300-page book, "The Genocide Convention: An International Law Analysis" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. @martinshawx, author of the books "What is Genocide?" and "War and Genocide" - says it's a genocide. @dirkmoses, author of the 600-page book, "The Problems of Genocide" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. Raz Segal, author of "Genocide in the Carpathians" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. Amos Goldberg, author of books on Holocaust, says it's a genocide in Gaza @bartov_omer, author of several books on Holocaust and genocide, says it's a genocide in Gaza. But why to listen to the experts in law and genocide studies? Why to bother to read the extensive human rights reports? Listen to @piersmorgan instead; he has a gut feeling. https://x.com/NimerSultany/status/1870761846497583323 https://x.com/NimerSultany/status/1870761846497583323 > This is war, this is how it goes. Yeah, war is how "I was just following orders" German troops justified killing 12m+ in concentration camps. Goebbels said, "The Jews are responsible for the war. The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all." Don't be like Goebbels. > the 2 billion Muslims that hate Jews Yeah, well: I know a handful Muslims who married Jews. > and all you did was bitch on the internet, I'd be ashamed to know you Same.
  - grumple 2y ago
    Unfortunately, popular opinion - at least of the far left - has always been united against Israel. In fact, many of those authors called it a genocide before this war. You can find plenty of such accusations on Twitter from prior to 10/10, when Israel started responding to the attack. You have many groups blaming Israel for all sorts of absurd things - like the fires in California. I wish I was joking. If not for Israel and the Jews, we'd have world peace - at least that's what you'd think if you listened to these groups. It is an extension of populist antisemitism. I encourage you to think about this on your own: why is Israel condemned for 45k deaths in a war they didn't start, where half of the killed are militants, where Israel is literally providing aid to their enemy, while the Houthis, responsible for 300k dead in the past decade, including many children via starvation, who have brought back slavery in Yemen, are lauded for attacking western shipping and have fanboys of one of their murderous pirates? Where is the criticism for Muslims planning terror attacks against the west, and against individual Jews globally? Why do leftists love the idea of jihad and intifada, but not a nation defending itself? Meanwhile, most "genocide" decriers seem to have ignored the tens of thousands of rockets, missiles, and drones launched at Israeli civilians from Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and Yemen. They ignore the videos of Gazans chearing in the streets and spitting on corpses. The open calls for exterminating the Jews from the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ, Iran, and more. There is one side calling for the extermination of the other and taking actions to make it so - the Muslims trying to destroy Israel and calling for and taking actions to kill Jews globally.

For example, here's the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide

grumple 2y ago
Wikipedia is the subject of a very large pro-Palestinian propaganda campaign: https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-editors-hijacked-the-israel-palestine-narrative https://www.piratewires.com/p/how-wikipedia-s-pro-hamas-edit... And they have banned several of those involved, though obviously each of the thousands who participated should be banned: https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/article-833180 https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/article-833180
- spencerflem 2y ago
  What about the groups linked in the wikipedia article: Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the UN Special Committee to investigate Israeli practices and the United Nations Special Rapporteur ? Those seem less biased sources than The Jerusalem Post
  - grumple 2y ago
    The source here isn't the JP, it's wikipedia. Wikipedia investigated and banned the editors. JP is just the reporter. You can find other news sites with the same news, or Wikipedia itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_and_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_and_the_Israeli%E2%8... Those human rights groups, unfortunately, have a long history of bias and foreign influence. The closer they are to the UN, the more political they are. Literally half of the UN's resolutions pertain to Israel - while 99.999% of war deaths, famine, modern slavery, etc, happen without Israel being involved. The UN was led by a literal Nazi in the 70s - Kurt Waldheim - and the last few UN Secretary Generals have said that there is a serious bias against Israel there (obvious from the obsession).
- dttze 2y ago
  Israel has whole government and military orgs dedicated to hasbara and advancing Israeli and Zionist interests. The editors were banned for organizing people around a vote. You going to pretend Israel doesn’t coordinate about the same things?
  - grumple 2y ago
    Literally every government has people who go on social media or provide press reports. Only when Israel is involved do you start talking about it like it’s a conspiracy. Please reflect on that for a while. Meanwhile Iran and Russia have literally been caught manipulating Reddit and TikTok. And you’re literally replying to evidence of the pro-Palestinian crowd doing the same in violation of Wikipedia’s terms of use.
    - dttze 2y ago
      Literally every organized group has people who go on social media. Only when Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims do the same thing as Israel do you consider it biased and wrong. Please reflect on why you think that. Meanwhile, Israel and the US have literally been caught manipulating Reddit and TikTok. And you’re literally replying to evidence of Israeli hasbara and US willingness to ban sites in support of that hasbara.
      - grumple 2y ago
        "No you" is not really a good argument here. Israel does not have an organized campaign to modify wikipedia, like what the pro-Palestine crowd does. And scale matters: there are 15 million Jews globally, 2 billion Muslims, 1.4 billion Chinese, 90 million Iranians. This is not a level playing field; manpower matters in swaying public opinion. And factually - Israel is an American-aligned democracy and has substantially more freedoms than China, Iran, Russia, and the Muslim world, and is not working to destroy all of those places the way that those places are working to destroy the west and all US influence. It's just "Jews control the media" using the cover word of Israel instead. Obviously untrue - if it were, then social media and wikipedia would be dominated by pro-Israel narratives, rather than the other way around, which is what is actually reality. Banning a propaganda tool used by China, Russia, and Iran, which is also used to collect our data, is not hasbara. It's just wise behavior to stop your enemies from disrupting your population. Anyway, hasbara means "explanation". Use of this as condemnation is basically somewhere between "foreign word bad" and "Jews bad".

grumple 2y ago

[flagged]

ignoramous 2y ago
> No, it really isn't. I wonder what you know about Genocide better than experts in Holocaust studies and other genocides themselves. William Schabas, author of the 741-page textbook, "Genocide in International Law" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. John Quigley, author of the 300-page book, "The Genocide Convention: An International Law Analysis" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. @martinshawx, author of the books "What is Genocide?" and "War and Genocide" - says it's a genocide. @dirkmoses, author of the 600-page book, "The Problems of Genocide" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. Raz Segal, author of "Genocide in the Carpathians" - says it's a genocide in Gaza. Amos Goldberg, author of books on Holocaust, says it's a genocide in Gaza @bartov_omer, author of several books on Holocaust and genocide, says it's a genocide in Gaza. But why to listen to the experts in law and genocide studies? Why to bother to read the extensive human rights reports? Listen to @piersmorgan instead; he has a gut feeling. https://x.com/NimerSultany/status/1870761846497583323 https://x.com/NimerSultany/status/1870761846497583323 > This is war, this is how it goes. Yeah, war is how "I was just following orders" German troops justified killing 12m+ in concentration camps. Goebbels said, "The Jews are responsible for the war. The treatment they receive from us is hardly unjust. They have deserved it all." Don't be like Goebbels. > the 2 billion Muslims that hate Jews Yeah, well: I know a handful Muslims who married Jews. > and all you did was bitch on the internet, I'd be ashamed to know you Same.
- grumple 2y ago
  Unfortunately, popular opinion - at least of the far left - has always been united against Israel. In fact, many of those authors called it a genocide before this war. You can find plenty of such accusations on Twitter from prior to 10/10, when Israel started responding to the attack. You have many groups blaming Israel for all sorts of absurd things - like the fires in California. I wish I was joking. If not for Israel and the Jews, we'd have world peace - at least that's what you'd think if you listened to these groups. It is an extension of populist antisemitism. I encourage you to think about this on your own: why is Israel condemned for 45k deaths in a war they didn't start, where half of the killed are militants, where Israel is literally providing aid to their enemy, while the Houthis, responsible for 300k dead in the past decade, including many children via starvation, who have brought back slavery in Yemen, are lauded for attacking western shipping and have fanboys of one of their murderous pirates? Where is the criticism for Muslims planning terror attacks against the west, and against individual Jews globally? Why do leftists love the idea of jihad and intifada, but not a nation defending itself? Meanwhile, most "genocide" decriers seem to have ignored the tens of thousands of rockets, missiles, and drones launched at Israeli civilians from Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and Yemen. They ignore the videos of Gazans chearing in the streets and spitting on corpses. The open calls for exterminating the Jews from the Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ, Iran, and more. There is one side calling for the extermination of the other and taking actions to make it so - the Muslims trying to destroy Israel and calling for and taking actions to kill Jews globally.