5 ms·

Just like printing presses killed the profession of copying books by hand, eliminating the training pathway for illuminated manuscripts. Death of civilization

Just like printing presses killed the profession of copying books by hand, eliminating the training pathway for illuminated manuscripts. Death of civilization itself I say, damn those printing presses.

j4coh 2y ago
If you see podcasts as useless in modern society as illuminated manuscripts, no big loss I suppose, but I do enjoy the human made ones and would be sad to see them go extinct as the manuscripts did. And the same thing is happening to other entry-level creative roles, some of which you may personally regret the loss of too.
- akho 2y ago
  I enjoy looking at illuminated manuscripts. Podcasts are bullshit and can die in a ditch.
  - teekert 2y ago
    I enjoy podcasts but I still hope illuminated manuscripts won’t die in a ditch so other people can enjoy content the way they prefer ;)
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Actually I think illuminated manuscripts had more value, insofar as they were art, than podcasts (99% of which are vapid timewasters and/or friend simulators.) The good podcasts are those view which involve interviewing interesting people, and AI isn't replacing those. There's a lot more to be said for the value of audio books, but the accessibility gains of proliferated auto-generated audiobooks outweigh the downside of losing a small number of expertly produced audio books. For context, I listen to audio books a lot, and for years I have listened to traditional TTS readings of books too. Better voice generation for books without audiobooks is a great win for society.
littlestymaar 2y ago
Given that the printing press was the root cause for the century of religious wars that soaked Europe with blood, and was key in the revolutions that overthrown absolute monarchies all over Europe, I don't think it's as good as an example as you think it is. Death of a civilization doesn't mean disappearance of mankind or even overall regression on the long term.
- megaloblasto 2y ago
  Do you have a source for that? I don't think the printing press was the cause of religious wars any more than bullets were the cause of WWII
  - baq 2y ago
    Easy access to the Bible text instead of being only read to, hence high literacy of the faithful, was one of the core tenets of some branches of Protestantism.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Have you heard of the Protestant Reformation and the following 120 years of war? The entire Protestant <> Catholic blow up that consumed Europe was pretty directly attributable to the printing press. (To be clear, nothing is solely and exclusively caused by any one thing. Causality is a very fuzzy concept. But sans printing press, those wars certainly wouldn’t have happened when/where/how they did, if they ever happened at all).
    - xkriva11 2y ago
      Do you know Hussites? [1] The Hussite Wars (1419–1434) predate printing press and Luther told: "We are all Hussites without knowing it." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussites
  - deleted 2y ago
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oldgradstudent 2y ago
There's a big difference. Printing presses produce superior products. A mediocre audiobook is certainly better than no audiobook at all, but it is an inferior product to a well produced audiobook.
- gampleman 2y ago
  > Printing presses produce superior products. That seems like a highly dubitable statement. Many hand illuminated manuscripts are masterpieces of art. The advantage of the printing press was chiefly economical making the cost of a copy dramatically less, not an increase in quality (especially so by the aesthetical standards of the time).
  - karamanolev 2y ago
    Many (most, if not all) hand-made copies contained errors, which printed books did not. They were much closer to 1:1 copies.
    - jhbadger 2y ago
      If the mistake happened in the typesetting stage, printed books could spread errors much more efficiently, as in the infamous "wicked bible" of 1631, where a typesetting error made the ten commandments contain the amusing phrase "Thou shalt commit adultery". Surviving copies are quite the collectors' item as most were destroyed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_Bible
      - oldgradstudent 2y ago
        Usually, though, errors are corrected and every every printing has fewer errors than the previous one.
        kamarg 2y ago
        What percentage of books get a second print run on a printing press? And what's the process for that? Do they have to reset each word for the second run? I genuinely don't know how a physical process like typesetting can result in increased accuracy on each print.
Melomomololo 2y ago
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j4coh 2y ago

If you see podcasts as useless in modern society as illuminated manuscripts, no big loss I suppose, but I do enjoy the human made ones and would be sad to see them go extinct as the manuscripts did. And the same thing is happening to other entry-level creative roles, some of which you may personally regret the loss of too.

akho 2y ago
I enjoy looking at illuminated manuscripts. Podcasts are bullshit and can die in a ditch.
- teekert 2y ago
  I enjoy podcasts but I still hope illuminated manuscripts won’t die in a ditch so other people can enjoy content the way they prefer ;)
lupusreal 2y ago
Actually I think illuminated manuscripts had more value, insofar as they were art, than podcasts (99% of which are vapid timewasters and/or friend simulators.) The good podcasts are those view which involve interviewing interesting people, and AI isn't replacing those. There's a lot more to be said for the value of audio books, but the accessibility gains of proliferated auto-generated audiobooks outweigh the downside of losing a small number of expertly produced audio books. For context, I listen to audio books a lot, and for years I have listened to traditional TTS readings of books too. Better voice generation for books without audiobooks is a great win for society.

littlestymaar 2y ago

Given that the printing press was the root cause for the century of religious wars that soaked Europe with blood, and was key in the revolutions that overthrown absolute monarchies all over Europe, I don't think it's as good as an example as you think it is. Death of a civilization doesn't mean disappearance of mankind or even overall regression on the long term.

megaloblasto 2y ago
Do you have a source for that? I don't think the printing press was the cause of religious wars any more than bullets were the cause of WWII
- baq 2y ago
  Easy access to the Bible text instead of being only read to, hence high literacy of the faithful, was one of the core tenets of some branches of Protestantism.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Have you heard of the Protestant Reformation and the following 120 years of war? The entire Protestant <> Catholic blow up that consumed Europe was pretty directly attributable to the printing press. (To be clear, nothing is solely and exclusively caused by any one thing. Causality is a very fuzzy concept. But sans printing press, those wars certainly wouldn’t have happened when/where/how they did, if they ever happened at all).
  - xkriva11 2y ago
    Do you know Hussites? [1] The Hussite Wars (1419–1434) predate printing press and Luther told: "We are all Hussites without knowing it." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussites
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- 2y ago

oldgradstudent 2y ago

There's a big difference. Printing presses produce superior products. A mediocre audiobook is certainly better than no audiobook at all, but it is an inferior product to a well produced audiobook.

gampleman 2y ago
> Printing presses produce superior products. That seems like a highly dubitable statement. Many hand illuminated manuscripts are masterpieces of art. The advantage of the printing press was chiefly economical making the cost of a copy dramatically less, not an increase in quality (especially so by the aesthetical standards of the time).
- karamanolev 2y ago
  Many (most, if not all) hand-made copies contained errors, which printed books did not. They were much closer to 1:1 copies.
  - jhbadger 2y ago
    If the mistake happened in the typesetting stage, printed books could spread errors much more efficiently, as in the infamous "wicked bible" of 1631, where a typesetting error made the ten commandments contain the amusing phrase "Thou shalt commit adultery". Surviving copies are quite the collectors' item as most were destroyed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_Bible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_Bible
    - oldgradstudent 2y ago
      Usually, though, errors are corrected and every every printing has fewer errors than the previous one.
      - kamarg 2y ago
        What percentage of books get a second print run on a printing press? And what's the process for that? Do they have to reset each word for the second run? I genuinely don't know how a physical process like typesetting can result in increased accuracy on each print.

Melomomololo 2y ago

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