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Are you sure the "any amount" generalization is true? I know in Switzerland of money confiscated at border control for simple suspicion, but we are talking (ten

by soco 2y ago

Are you sure the "any amount" generalization is true? I know in Switzerland of money confiscated at border control for simple suspicion, but we are talking (tens of) thousands. Although there's a certain obligation of declaration those people always "forget", that situation stays shitty, but in any case it's a very very far cry from "any amount".

deleted 2y ago
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the-dude 2y ago
If it were really 'any' in the philosophical sense, cash would be outlawed. So no, it is not 'any', it is anywhere between more than a couple of hundred to a couple of thousands, depending on what the police or prosecutor feels is reasonable. What is wrong with a (couple of) thousand euros? > I know in Switzerland of money confiscated at border control You are describing smuggling, I was talking about normal domestic use.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > You are describing smuggling There's a thin line between smuggling and wanting personal money to be somewhere else. I get why most states want to track cash coming across their border, but it's really none of their business if they can't prove theres a crime. The absence of a crime does not constitute a crime.
  - soco 2y ago
    And now the funny part: even after they failed to prove there's a crime, the Swiss police still often refuses to release the money.
- nullc 2y ago
  > If it were really 'any' in the philosophical sense, cash would be outlawed. The state doesn't have unlimited power, so no. What you expect to see where cash is being banned outright is a slow erosion of less common uses, larger amounts, and an addition of inconveniences and risks in order to drive people off it so that an eventual ban is less unpopular or is even popular. ("screw those bank distrusting weirdos!") To ban outright risks backlash and failure.
jeroenhd 2y ago
One Dutch party in the previous government tried to outlaw carrying more than €2000 in the street. As far as I know, that law didn't pass. Plus you can keep as many cash reserves at home as you want (but good luck getting any back if that gets stolen). However, there are rules that make cash less useful for large payments. Cash payments over €10000 (€3000 starting in March) are outright banned without involving the government. There are more practical problems than "I just really want to buy a car without giving out my bank account", though: more and more Dutch stores have stopped taking cash to reduce the risk and losses of robberies. You can still carry cash, but spending it may require some research ahead of time, and not every business is interested in the overhead of going through the money laundering prevention system when normal people usually just buy >€3000 stuff through their bank accounts. If anything, the Dutch government has been telling people to have cash available in case of emergencies after "geopolitical tension" (read: the Russian invasion into Ukraine). Not that anyone seems to listen, but they encourage having cash reserves. They're still working out an exact amount to recommend, but a couple hundred euros seems to be most likely.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Can we note the absurdity of one part of the government banning too much cash, while another part of the government notes that some cash is essential? Also, prepper realism: a week's worth of cash at hand goes a long way towards handling the most likely disaster scenarios (which are all well short of Road Warrior).
  - OJFord 2y ago
    Is that absurd? It's not inconsistent.
  - soco 2y ago
    Let's not omit that a large reserve of cash will be very unlikely spent all at once, so we are talking different use cases here. You won't buy a car (probably) in a disaster scenario, but water and food from here and there.
  - danudey 2y ago

by soco 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

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the-dude 2y ago

If it were really 'any' in the philosophical sense, cash would be outlawed. So no, it is not 'any', it is anywhere between more than a couple of hundred to a couple of thousands, depending on what the police or prosecutor feels is reasonable. What is wrong with a (couple of) thousand euros? > I know in Switzerland of money confiscated at border control You are describing smuggling, I was talking about normal domestic use.

ethbr1 2y ago
> You are describing smuggling There's a thin line between smuggling and wanting personal money to be somewhere else. I get why most states want to track cash coming across their border, but it's really none of their business if they can't prove theres a crime. The absence of a crime does not constitute a crime.
- soco 2y ago
  And now the funny part: even after they failed to prove there's a crime, the Swiss police still often refuses to release the money.
nullc 2y ago
> If it were really 'any' in the philosophical sense, cash would be outlawed. The state doesn't have unlimited power, so no. What you expect to see where cash is being banned outright is a slow erosion of less common uses, larger amounts, and an addition of inconveniences and risks in order to drive people off it so that an eventual ban is less unpopular or is even popular. ("screw those bank distrusting weirdos!") To ban outright risks backlash and failure.

jeroenhd 2y ago

One Dutch party in the previous government tried to outlaw carrying more than €2000 in the street. As far as I know, that law didn't pass. Plus you can keep as many cash reserves at home as you want (but good luck getting any back if that gets stolen). However, there are rules that make cash less useful for large payments. Cash payments over €10000 (€3000 starting in March) are outright banned without involving the government. There are more practical problems than "I just really want to buy a car without giving out my bank account", though: more and more Dutch stores have stopped taking cash to reduce the risk and losses of robberies. You can still carry cash, but spending it may require some research ahead of time, and not every business is interested in the overhead of going through the money laundering prevention system when normal people usually just buy >€3000 stuff through their bank accounts. If anything, the Dutch government has been telling people to have cash available in case of emergencies after "geopolitical tension" (read: the Russian invasion into Ukraine). Not that anyone seems to listen, but they encourage having cash reserves. They're still working out an exact amount to recommend, but a couple hundred euros seems to be most likely.

ethbr1 2y ago
Can we note the absurdity of one part of the government banning too much cash, while another part of the government notes that some cash is essential? Also, prepper realism: a week's worth of cash at hand goes a long way towards handling the most likely disaster scenarios (which are all well short of Road Warrior).
- OJFord 2y ago
  Is that absurd? It's not inconsistent.
- soco 2y ago
  Let's not omit that a large reserve of cash will be very unlikely spent all at once, so we are talking different use cases here. You won't buy a car (probably) in a disaster scenario, but water and food from here and there.
- danudey 2y ago