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In Missouri, high-school buildings use the same blueprints as state prisons. Why bother designing something custom? They serve the same purpose. They literally

In Missouri, high-school buildings use the same blueprints as state prisons. Why bother designing something custom? They serve the same purpose. They literally are prisons. If a teenager fails to show up for school, a police officer will eventually show up to arrest their parents and place the teenager in the custody of a "foster family." Now both parent and teenager are imprisoned. And we are told this is freedom. To make matters much much worse, children in state custody with the foster system are routinely exposed to all kinds of abuse. Many foster families operate like a profitable business where costs are minimized and care is entirely absent.

lyu07282 2y ago
> And we are told this is freedom. I think we pretty much universally agree that mandatory schooling is preferable to the alternative, do you really think an illiterate populous is preferable? So yes actually that is freedom. Society guarantees that you will not be illiterate just because your parents were crack addicts, I think that's a good thing.
- greentxt 2y ago
  I don't think an illiterate populous is the alternative unless you think most people lack intrinsic motivation and also have families that don't value education. Seems extremely unlikely. Maybe you wouldn't have gone to school if you had a choice but most people would, if nothing else for free childcare.
  - lyu07282 2y ago
    > most people would You are missing the point, "most" is not all, I don't think most people/families are like this at all, we don't do this for most people. I think you would be surprised about the number of low-income children in the US who will never see a classroom if we abandoned compulsory education. It is also an effective measure to increase equality and class mobility. 14 million children in the US are food insecure. 43 million people live in poverty, 12.9% [1] You know how many people in the US are illiterate? 21% [2] Do you think that number will increase or decrease if we got rid of compulsory education? [1] https://www.nokidhungry.org/who-we-are/hunger-facts https://www.nokidhungry.org/who-we-are/hunger-facts [2] https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/post/literacy-statistics-2024-2025-where-we-are-now https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/post/literacy-s...
    - 9rx 2y ago
      > You know how many people in the US are illiterate? 21% [2] Do you think that number will increase or decrease if we got rid of compulsory education? Just 20% in 1875[1], despite the primitive education system of the time. Is the answer no change, it being limited by the innate capabilities of the people, not limited by what they do? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
      - Miraste 2y ago
        The source above yours and the one on Wikipedia are using different metrics for literacy. These are generally not comparable. Measuring literacy in a useful way, especially over historic timescales, is harder than it sounds.
tigeba 2y ago
I feel I must point out that education buildings in Missouri do not share designs with prisons as a norm. Maybe this is true somewhere in the state but not here.
- 20after4 2y ago
  Yeah I didn't mean all of them. A couple of examples that I am aware of are Ozark High School and Waynesville High School.
  - WillPostForFood 2y ago
    There is no way this is true. People look at ugly schools, and they look like prisons, and the kids are captive in the ugly buildings, so it invites the prison metaphor. But makes no sense. Schools are a series of classrooms, prisons are a series of small cells. The designs would not be reusable at a fundamental level, or any practical level.
    - treis 2y ago
      I can't believe people think this is true. There are no school room sized cells in any prison. At least not in this country.
      - aerostable_slug 2y ago
        There are in fact a great many school room sized cells in the United States. "Dormitory" housing is the norm for a significant percentage of inmates in jails, prisons, and immigration detention centers (imagine a school gym filled with bunks and you're often not far off). To add to the school-prison linkage, many facilities have lockers as well, replete with padlocks that make dandy weapons. That said, I am still doubtful there are 1:1 copies of jails being used as schools, regardless of visible similarities. I don't see any of these supposed jail/high schools with secured rec yards for instance, which generally make up part of the structure of the facilities that look most like the examples given.

lyu07282 2y ago

> And we are told this is freedom. I think we pretty much universally agree that mandatory schooling is preferable to the alternative, do you really think an illiterate populous is preferable? So yes actually that is freedom. Society guarantees that you will not be illiterate just because your parents were crack addicts, I think that's a good thing.

greentxt 2y ago
I don't think an illiterate populous is the alternative unless you think most people lack intrinsic motivation and also have families that don't value education. Seems extremely unlikely. Maybe you wouldn't have gone to school if you had a choice but most people would, if nothing else for free childcare.
- lyu07282 2y ago
  > most people would You are missing the point, "most" is not all, I don't think most people/families are like this at all, we don't do this for most people. I think you would be surprised about the number of low-income children in the US who will never see a classroom if we abandoned compulsory education. It is also an effective measure to increase equality and class mobility. 14 million children in the US are food insecure. 43 million people live in poverty, 12.9% [1] You know how many people in the US are illiterate? 21% [2] Do you think that number will increase or decrease if we got rid of compulsory education? [1] https://www.nokidhungry.org/who-we-are/hunger-facts https://www.nokidhungry.org/who-we-are/hunger-facts [2] https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/post/literacy-statistics-2024-2025-where-we-are-now https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/post/literacy-s...
  - 9rx 2y ago
    > You know how many people in the US are illiterate? 21% [2] Do you think that number will increase or decrease if we got rid of compulsory education? Just 20% in 1875[1], despite the primitive education system of the time. Is the answer no change, it being limited by the innate capabilities of the people, not limited by what they do? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
    - Miraste 2y ago
      The source above yours and the one on Wikipedia are using different metrics for literacy. These are generally not comparable. Measuring literacy in a useful way, especially over historic timescales, is harder than it sounds.

tigeba 2y ago

I feel I must point out that education buildings in Missouri do not share designs with prisons as a norm. Maybe this is true somewhere in the state but not here.

20after4 2y ago
Yeah I didn't mean all of them. A couple of examples that I am aware of are Ozark High School and Waynesville High School.
- WillPostForFood 2y ago
  There is no way this is true. People look at ugly schools, and they look like prisons, and the kids are captive in the ugly buildings, so it invites the prison metaphor. But makes no sense. Schools are a series of classrooms, prisons are a series of small cells. The designs would not be reusable at a fundamental level, or any practical level.
  - treis 2y ago
    I can't believe people think this is true. There are no school room sized cells in any prison. At least not in this country.
    - aerostable_slug 2y ago
      There are in fact a great many school room sized cells in the United States. "Dormitory" housing is the norm for a significant percentage of inmates in jails, prisons, and immigration detention centers (imagine a school gym filled with bunks and you're often not far off). To add to the school-prison linkage, many facilities have lockers as well, replete with padlocks that make dandy weapons. That said, I am still doubtful there are 1:1 copies of jails being used as schools, regardless of visible similarities. I don't see any of these supposed jail/high schools with secured rec yards for instance, which generally make up part of the structure of the facilities that look most like the examples given.