4 ms·

Previous discussion (16 hours ago) Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab (tomshardware.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/ite

by alecco 2y ago

Previous discussion (16 hours ago) Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab (tomshardware.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42699977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42699977

cyanydeez 2y ago
The good thing about apple prices is they could easily not change any of their prices and just swallow the loss in profit. But doubtful, it'll definitely be a premium made-inthe-usa labeling for government & school use. Just grift grift grift, then graft graft graft.
- boringg 2y ago
  They could do that -- then equity would correct investors would be like wait what. Exec and employee comp would decrease. Pressure to deliver consistent returns is real assuming its a material cost difference.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
Does this mean that you will see entirely made in the USA Macs?
- swarnie 2y ago
  Depends, Do you have 10 year olds who will work for 18c an hour? Or do you have consumers who will pay for the difference?
  - declan_roberts 2y ago
    Unfortunately the USA doesn't have religious prisoners who can be coerced into a factory as slave labor.
    - swarnie 2y ago
      You might be on to something though! If you dont mind dropping the religious aspect i think you already have the rest via the Prison-Industries Act; as cheap as an Asian child but with the strength and intelligence of the US adult prison population. Hold on im going to write this down.
      - giancarlostoro 2y ago
        What's more interesting is that if you do it correctly, someone could leave jail / prison with interesting niche skills you could technically hire for, assuming they prove they are reformed.
      - soseng 2y ago
        It seems that Arizona is #3 for the total number of for-profit prisoners. There may be untapped potential for slave labor and finding creative ways to imprison Americans here. Stat: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners-private-prisons-us-state/#:~:text=As%20of%202022%2C%20the%20state,private%20prisoners%20in%20that%20year https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners....
    - nemomarx 2y ago
      we do have a lot of prisoners though, and they do various factory kinda jobs. probably not high skill ones though?
      - 0_____0 2y ago
        It depends, there are definitely things like carpentry and other manufacturing that prisoners do that I wouldn't call 'unskilled' by any stretch. One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized.
        mschuster91 2y ago
        > One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized. Ask tradespeople how much they like competition from prisons or, in Germany, subsidised workplaces for the disabled.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
    People already pay a premium on Macs to be honest. Every hard drive upgrade is ridiculously overpriced. "Minecraft proves that the children yearn for the mines"
    - Clamchop 2y ago
      Way less than they used to. The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Stands to follow that many of their new customers are price-sensitive.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        > The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Ever tried to configure storage on anything Apple? The markup is ridiculous, but on the other side, it blows a lot of the competition out of the water.
        dangus 2y ago
        This is a dumb tangent that's been beaten to death, but yes Apple base model systems to tend to be somewhat untouchable in value around when they're released. Buying something anywhere close to the form factor of a Mac mini with the same performance is nearly impossible. We also shouldn't beat this horse to death because it's not hard to plug in a USB/Thunderbolt SSD and there's essentially no performance penalty. Or if you have a MacBook Pro you can get one of these: https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-transcend-review/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-tra... Not the fastest thing in the world but it gets the job done.
  - jsmcgd 2y ago
    Humanoid robot workers are going to have a massive impact on industries like this. 'cheap labor' will no longer be isolated to certain regions.
  - randomopining 2y ago
    Marginal cost added probably isn't that much. How many manhours does a mac take to build?
  - dangus 2y ago
    Got any more of that hyperbole? Or maybe outdated xenophobia? The average manufacturing salary in China is around $13,000 a year, in a country where cost of living is 50% lower than the US and rent is 75% lower. China is actually a place with relatively high manufacturing labor costs these days, but it's a production center for a lot of industries and holds a lot of the ecosystems and institutional knowledge (not unlike all the automotive parts suppliers in the American Midwest).
    - bfrog 2y ago
      https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... And yet…
      - dangus 2y ago
        I legally worked in the US at age 14 with a permit. No, my employer was not my parents' business and it was not farm-related, just a regular hourly employer. https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor-laws-sparks-outrage-this-just-crazy-1779821 https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor...
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    None of the people assembling Apple products in China are 10-year-olds making $0.18 an hour.
    - bfrog 2y ago
      https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- zitterbewegung 2y ago
  The closest you can get is the Mac Pro line starting with the Trashcan Mac Pro. https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/after-federal-break-apple-will-keep-mac-pro-made-in-the-usa/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/after-federal-break-appl...

by alecco 2y ago

cyanydeez 2y ago

The good thing about apple prices is they could easily not change any of their prices and just swallow the loss in profit. But doubtful, it'll definitely be a premium made-inthe-usa labeling for government & school use. Just grift grift grift, then graft graft graft.

boringg 2y ago
They could do that -- then equity would correct investors would be like wait what. Exec and employee comp would decrease. Pressure to deliver consistent returns is real assuming its a material cost difference.

giancarlostoro 2y ago

Does this mean that you will see entirely made in the USA Macs?

swarnie 2y ago
Depends, Do you have 10 year olds who will work for 18c an hour? Or do you have consumers who will pay for the difference?
- declan_roberts 2y ago
  Unfortunately the USA doesn't have religious prisoners who can be coerced into a factory as slave labor.
  - swarnie 2y ago
    You might be on to something though! If you dont mind dropping the religious aspect i think you already have the rest via the Prison-Industries Act; as cheap as an Asian child but with the strength and intelligence of the US adult prison population. Hold on im going to write this down.
    - giancarlostoro 2y ago
      What's more interesting is that if you do it correctly, someone could leave jail / prison with interesting niche skills you could technically hire for, assuming they prove they are reformed.
    - soseng 2y ago
      It seems that Arizona is #3 for the total number of for-profit prisoners. There may be untapped potential for slave labor and finding creative ways to imprison Americans here. Stat: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners-private-prisons-us-state/#:~:text=As%20of%202022%2C%20the%20state,private%20prisoners%20in%20that%20year https://www.statista.com/statistics/1356957/number-prisoners....
  - nemomarx 2y ago
    we do have a lot of prisoners though, and they do various factory kinda jobs. probably not high skill ones though?
    - 0_____0 2y ago
      It depends, there are definitely things like carpentry and other manufacturing that prisoners do that I wouldn't call 'unskilled' by any stretch. One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        > One big reason to pay prisoners appropriately is that otherwise they affect the labor rate for trades that overlap with how prison labor is currently utilized. Ask tradespeople how much they like competition from prisons or, in Germany, subsidised workplaces for the disabled.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  People already pay a premium on Macs to be honest. Every hard drive upgrade is ridiculously overpriced. "Minecraft proves that the children yearn for the mines"
  - Clamchop 2y ago
    Way less than they used to. The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Stands to follow that many of their new customers are price-sensitive.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > The Mac "premium" has been declining for decades. Ever tried to configure storage on anything Apple? The markup is ridiculous, but on the other side, it blows a lot of the competition out of the water.
      - dangus 2y ago
        This is a dumb tangent that's been beaten to death, but yes Apple base model systems to tend to be somewhat untouchable in value around when they're released. Buying something anywhere close to the form factor of a Mac mini with the same performance is nearly impossible. We also shouldn't beat this horse to death because it's not hard to plug in a USB/Thunderbolt SSD and there's essentially no performance penalty. Or if you have a MacBook Pro you can get one of these: https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-transcend-review/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/20/macbook-pro-flush-sd-card-tra... Not the fastest thing in the world but it gets the job done.
- jsmcgd 2y ago
  Humanoid robot workers are going to have a massive impact on industries like this. 'cheap labor' will no longer be isolated to certain regions.
- randomopining 2y ago
  Marginal cost added probably isn't that much. How many manhours does a mac take to build?
- dangus 2y ago
  Got any more of that hyperbole? Or maybe outdated xenophobia? The average manufacturing salary in China is around $13,000 a year, in a country where cost of living is 50% lower than the US and rent is 75% lower. China is actually a place with relatively high manufacturing labor costs these days, but it's a production center for a lot of industries and holds a lot of the ecosystems and institutional knowledge (not unlike all the automotive parts suppliers in the American Midwest).
  - bfrog 2y ago
    https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l... And yet…
    - dangus 2y ago
      I legally worked in the US at age 14 with a permit. No, my employer was not my parents' business and it was not farm-related, just a regular hourly employer. https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor-laws-sparks-outrage-this-just-crazy-1779821 https://www.newsweek.com/iowa-bill-relaxing-back-child-labor...
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  None of the people assembling Apple products in China are 10-year-olds making $0.18 an hour.
  - bfrog 2y ago
    https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-labor-supplier-3-years-cut-costs-2020-12?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-knowingly-used-child-l...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
zitterbewegung 2y ago
The closest you can get is the Mac Pro line starting with the Trashcan Mac Pro. https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/after-federal-break-apple-will-keep-mac-pro-made-in-the-usa/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/after-federal-break-appl...