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> performative shame piece, like this attorney seems to be doing. How is it performative when there is actually an action behind it?

lazide 2y ago
Fair point - performative would be continuing to be their attorney. Virtue signaling is probably more accurate, as a sibling comment noted.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  Taking concrete professional action in line with and motivated by your personal values is virtue signaling? Is there a correct way you want people to model and yes, signal, the prosocial values that they want to reproduce in the world?
  - lazide 2y ago
    Where does the LinkedIn post fit in?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - TheCoelacanth 2y ago
    Publicly kick a puppy while you're announcing your action. That way you can make sure that you don't get any reputation benefits from the action.
    - lazide 2y ago
      Personally, I take my cans out of the recycling bin and throw them in the trash while staring my neighbors in the eyes.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  I love the phrase "virtue signaling," because someone non-ironically using it is openly admitting that the behavior question is virtuous, thus implying that the opposite behavior is wrong. This seems to be lost on most people.
  - lazide 2y ago
    That isn’t the actual usage. The actual usage is doing something to ‘appear virtuous’. Usually in the context of actual actions being non-congruent with the actual underlying virtue. Otherwise the person is just a (perhaps in a small degree) a saint. Do you think this Lawyer is a saint? If they do literally nothing, or the opposite of what they are doing then it is purely performative. It doesn’t have to be purely performative though. For example, if a city spends a lot of time and effort showing how they are doing recycling and end up putting it into a landfill without further processing? That is purely performative virtue signaling. If they sort it, and sell it to someone (at a loss), but that company ends up producing more waste/emissions while doing the processing, then it’s virtue signaling, it is at least not purely performative virtue signaling. They are putting some money where their mouth is. Either way, it doesn’t actually solve any real underlying problems though (probably). And frankly, what are the odds the attorney actually just got fired?
    - angoragoats 2y ago
      > That isn’t the actual usage. Yes, it is, at least in the way I see it used the majority of the time. All of your examples prove my point: the person calling recycling “virtue signaling” is admitting that the idea of recycling is virtuous. When people say this attorney is virtue signaling, they’re admitting that him firing FB as a client for being neo-Nazis is virtuous. > what are the odds the attorney actually just got fired? Low.
      - lazide 2y ago
        The point is, the idea is virtuous. The reality often isn’t. So going on and on about the idea can often cause more harm than good. And almost no one goes on a loud rant when the split was amicable/voluntary.

lazide 2y ago

Fair point - performative would be continuing to be their attorney. Virtue signaling is probably more accurate, as a sibling comment noted.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
Taking concrete professional action in line with and motivated by your personal values is virtue signaling? Is there a correct way you want people to model and yes, signal, the prosocial values that they want to reproduce in the world?
- lazide 2y ago
  Where does the LinkedIn post fit in?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- TheCoelacanth 2y ago
  Publicly kick a puppy while you're announcing your action. That way you can make sure that you don't get any reputation benefits from the action.
  - lazide 2y ago
    Personally, I take my cans out of the recycling bin and throw them in the trash while staring my neighbors in the eyes.
angoragoats 2y ago
I love the phrase "virtue signaling," because someone non-ironically using it is openly admitting that the behavior question is virtuous, thus implying that the opposite behavior is wrong. This seems to be lost on most people.
- lazide 2y ago
  That isn’t the actual usage. The actual usage is doing something to ‘appear virtuous’. Usually in the context of actual actions being non-congruent with the actual underlying virtue. Otherwise the person is just a (perhaps in a small degree) a saint. Do you think this Lawyer is a saint? If they do literally nothing, or the opposite of what they are doing then it is purely performative. It doesn’t have to be purely performative though. For example, if a city spends a lot of time and effort showing how they are doing recycling and end up putting it into a landfill without further processing? That is purely performative virtue signaling. If they sort it, and sell it to someone (at a loss), but that company ends up producing more waste/emissions while doing the processing, then it’s virtue signaling, it is at least not purely performative virtue signaling. They are putting some money where their mouth is. Either way, it doesn’t actually solve any real underlying problems though (probably). And frankly, what are the odds the attorney actually just got fired?
  - angoragoats 2y ago
    > That isn’t the actual usage. Yes, it is, at least in the way I see it used the majority of the time. All of your examples prove my point: the person calling recycling “virtue signaling” is admitting that the idea of recycling is virtuous. When people say this attorney is virtue signaling, they’re admitting that him firing FB as a client for being neo-Nazis is virtuous. > what are the odds the attorney actually just got fired? Low.
    - lazide 2y ago
      The point is, the idea is virtuous. The reality often isn’t. So going on and on about the idea can often cause more harm than good. And almost no one goes on a loud rant when the split was amicable/voluntary.