5 ms·

It's not about leaving a humorous note or reference (I know I've left plenty), but that it's a sexist one reflects poorly on developer culture.

watty 14y ago
Men have boobs too, and some men have big boobs (often referred to as moobs). This just shows that people can get angry at any and everything. Sexist? Only if you want it to be.
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  It's vaguely sexist, but primarily it's just really immature and smacks of the boys club mentality.
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    "Big Boobs" is not a boys club. Women are welcome. And many woman are into big boobs (either their own or those of others). What is sexist is to grip a notion that only men are capable of being immature or into big boobs. Not to mention that thinking women can't be into big boobs kind of sounds homophobic. Hey look... two can play the lets overreact and haphazardly toss around labels game. :)
    - demewmew 14y ago
      I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter whether or not I like big boobs, or whether or not I like childish humor. If I'm interacting with people in a professional or collaborative context, and I employ childish humor, it's totally reasonable for people to consider me unprofessional / a person with poor boundaries, and to find me difficult to work with. And so they probably aren't going to work with me. That's the issue, and most of the research on retention of minorities in industry supports that people leave or choose not to participate in the first place due to behavior like this.
      - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
        Agreed. Oh wait... but... but... being "unprofessional" or having "poor boundaries" is a far cry from "sexist". Labels matter... getting them right does too.
        demewmew 14y ago
        Who used the term "sexist"? Not mjg, and the BBC article only mentions it in terms of the ensuing debate. I have no doubt that mjg avoided using it, in part, because people seize upon it to derail the discussion, as you seem to be doing. Guess what - labels don't matter to people who don't feel welcome. They're just going to leave, and while some people don't care, others would like this field to be a bit more welcoming to others, and once again, that's why this matters.
pwny 14y ago
Now there's a limit to draw too. I don't approve of some of the blatant sexism going on in our field, but this is a little too much don't you think? If I tell someone I like boobs, should I issue a formal apology too? Should Microsoft issue a public apology to their cafeteria workers for using 0xBAADF00D? OpenSolaris for 0xDEFEC8ED?* They're hex strings ffs. Can we stop pretending we're so prude and perfect, call out the real offensive stuff and not fret over this kind of irrelevance? *(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexspeak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexspeak)
- cjbprime 14y ago
  > If I tell someone I like boobs, should I issue a formal apology too? Since you seem to think this is an appropriate experiment, feel free to start some professional/workplace conversations about big boobs and let us know how that works out for you. Having to issue an formal apology seems like one of the more mild likely consequences I can think of.
  - pwny 14y ago
    So you're telling me it would be reprehensible if I said "big boobs" aloud, out of context, in my workplace cafeteria (because that's what this is, "big boobs", said out of any context)? Talk about overreaction.
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  For what it's worth I think it's been spun up to a bigger story than it needs to be. It should have been patched quietly and done and moved on. And there is a line to be drawn, females aren't sacred cows need smothering away, but it's a bit off handed to make sure your hex code spells something like big boobies, just reflects poorly on the industry.
  - gizmo686 14y ago
    I don't know the technical details, but it sounds like the purpose of the magic number is interacting windows programs with linux. Regardless of how accurate that is, unless the magic number is used only within 1 program (or maybe only withing Microsoft programs), changing it is going to cause problems.
moe 14y ago
but that it's a sexist one reflects poorly on developer culture No. The fact that some americans can get so worked up over a bunch of hex-digits buried in a source-code file reflects on your culture.
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  Smooth move, I'm British.
  - batista 14y ago
    Same difference. PC sillyness has crossed the Atlantic.
    - nicholassmith 14y ago
      We have our crafted brand of over the top PC awareness thank you very much.
true_religion 14y ago
Though this is possibly offensive, and happens to concern women... it is not discriminatory and therefore is not "sexist". Please, I know it may seem like a minor point but if we generalize the term 'sexist' too much away from its origins, we will have to invent another term to define discrimination against women because of their gender/sex. There have been arguements in the past about improper language having a chilling effect on women in the feild, therefore being indirectly discriminatory, but I don't buy it. If you're not applying gender stereotypes, expositing hatred, or engaging in discrimination then you may still be doing something offensive, but it isn't pertinently sexist.

watty 14y ago

Men have boobs too, and some men have big boobs (often referred to as moobs). This just shows that people can get angry at any and everything. Sexist? Only if you want it to be.

nicholassmith 14y ago
It's vaguely sexist, but primarily it's just really immature and smacks of the boys club mentality.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  "Big Boobs" is not a boys club. Women are welcome. And many woman are into big boobs (either their own or those of others). What is sexist is to grip a notion that only men are capable of being immature or into big boobs. Not to mention that thinking women can't be into big boobs kind of sounds homophobic. Hey look... two can play the lets overreact and haphazardly toss around labels game. :)
  - demewmew 14y ago
    I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter whether or not I like big boobs, or whether or not I like childish humor. If I'm interacting with people in a professional or collaborative context, and I employ childish humor, it's totally reasonable for people to consider me unprofessional / a person with poor boundaries, and to find me difficult to work with. And so they probably aren't going to work with me. That's the issue, and most of the research on retention of minorities in industry supports that people leave or choose not to participate in the first place due to behavior like this.
    - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
      Agreed. Oh wait... but... but... being "unprofessional" or having "poor boundaries" is a far cry from "sexist". Labels matter... getting them right does too.
      - demewmew 14y ago
        Who used the term "sexist"? Not mjg, and the BBC article only mentions it in terms of the ensuing debate. I have no doubt that mjg avoided using it, in part, because people seize upon it to derail the discussion, as you seem to be doing. Guess what - labels don't matter to people who don't feel welcome. They're just going to leave, and while some people don't care, others would like this field to be a bit more welcoming to others, and once again, that's why this matters.

pwny 14y ago

Now there's a limit to draw too. I don't approve of some of the blatant sexism going on in our field, but this is a little too much don't you think? If I tell someone I like boobs, should I issue a formal apology too? Should Microsoft issue a public apology to their cafeteria workers for using 0xBAADF00D? OpenSolaris for 0xDEFEC8ED?* They're hex strings ffs. Can we stop pretending we're so prude and perfect, call out the real offensive stuff and not fret over this kind of irrelevance? *(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexspeak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexspeak)

cjbprime 14y ago
> If I tell someone I like boobs, should I issue a formal apology too? Since you seem to think this is an appropriate experiment, feel free to start some professional/workplace conversations about big boobs and let us know how that works out for you. Having to issue an formal apology seems like one of the more mild likely consequences I can think of.
- pwny 14y ago
  So you're telling me it would be reprehensible if I said "big boobs" aloud, out of context, in my workplace cafeteria (because that's what this is, "big boobs", said out of any context)? Talk about overreaction.
nicholassmith 14y ago
For what it's worth I think it's been spun up to a bigger story than it needs to be. It should have been patched quietly and done and moved on. And there is a line to be drawn, females aren't sacred cows need smothering away, but it's a bit off handed to make sure your hex code spells something like big boobies, just reflects poorly on the industry.
- gizmo686 14y ago
  I don't know the technical details, but it sounds like the purpose of the magic number is interacting windows programs with linux. Regardless of how accurate that is, unless the magic number is used only within 1 program (or maybe only withing Microsoft programs), changing it is going to cause problems.

moe 14y ago

but that it's a sexist one reflects poorly on developer culture No. The fact that some americans can get so worked up over a bunch of hex-digits buried in a source-code file reflects on your culture.

nicholassmith 14y ago
Smooth move, I'm British.
- batista 14y ago
  Same difference. PC sillyness has crossed the Atlantic.
  - nicholassmith 14y ago
    We have our crafted brand of over the top PC awareness thank you very much.

true_religion 14y ago

Though this is possibly offensive, and happens to concern women... it is not discriminatory and therefore is not "sexist". Please, I know it may seem like a minor point but if we generalize the term 'sexist' too much away from its origins, we will have to invent another term to define discrimination against women because of their gender/sex. There have been arguements in the past about improper language having a chilling effect on women in the feild, therefore being indirectly discriminatory, but I don't buy it. If you're not applying gender stereotypes, expositing hatred, or engaging in discrimination then you may still be doing something offensive, but it isn't pertinently sexist.