4 ms·

I don’t disagree with the core premise, but why much more than Ukraine?

whimsicalism 2y ago
Taiwan is a long-standing well-functioning democracy and a core ally. On the other side, I also view Russia's grievances as somewhat more legitimate than China's.
- DennisP 2y ago
  Addressing those "grievances" hasn't worked out too well for Russia. They complained about Ukraine moving in the general direction of NATO membership, and got Sweden and Finland as actual new members of NATO. Finland has a longer Russian border than Ukraine, and Sweden has a regional navy that pretty much controls the Baltic Sea. Both countries were pretty firmly neutral before the war.
  - bllguo 2y ago
    and that has what, exactly, to do with the legitimacy of said grievances?
    - DennisP 2y ago
      Because for all of Russia's apocalyptic rhetoric about the dire consequences of NATO membership on their borders, they've done nothing significant about Finland and Sweden actually becoming NATO members while stepping up their military spending. By comparison, a little political noise about Ukraine maybe joining NATO someday is much less of a provocation, which makes it seem unlikely to have been Russia's actual reason for invasion. And from any reasonable ethical perspective it's certainly not a legitimate one.
      - andy_ppp 2y ago
        The NATO stuff is such propaganda, the idea has always been imperialism and to take the people and turn them into Russians.
- bllguo 2y ago
  in what sense could you _possibly_ argue this from both legal and realpolitik lenses the Taiwan issue is fully legitimate. your country has done far worse to Cuba for far less. Even setting aside the historical context and the Chinese civil war, what is illegitimate about not wanting an antagonistic and belligerent foreign power installing weapons in an island mere miles off the mainland coast?
- kombine 2y ago
  No grievances that Russia might have had can justify this devastating war, and total annihilation, and mass murder.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    not the point of my comment. war is never good, whether it is Russia invading Ukraine, China invading Taiwan, or the US invading Iraq+Afghanistan - everyone should focus on finding common ground and understanding the perspectives of others

Taiwan is a long-standing well-functioning democracy and a core ally. On the other side, I also view Russia's grievances as somewhat more legitimate than China's.

DennisP 2y ago
Addressing those "grievances" hasn't worked out too well for Russia. They complained about Ukraine moving in the general direction of NATO membership, and got Sweden and Finland as actual new members of NATO. Finland has a longer Russian border than Ukraine, and Sweden has a regional navy that pretty much controls the Baltic Sea. Both countries were pretty firmly neutral before the war.
- bllguo 2y ago
  and that has what, exactly, to do with the legitimacy of said grievances?
  - DennisP 2y ago
    Because for all of Russia's apocalyptic rhetoric about the dire consequences of NATO membership on their borders, they've done nothing significant about Finland and Sweden actually becoming NATO members while stepping up their military spending. By comparison, a little political noise about Ukraine maybe joining NATO someday is much less of a provocation, which makes it seem unlikely to have been Russia's actual reason for invasion. And from any reasonable ethical perspective it's certainly not a legitimate one.
    - andy_ppp 2y ago
      The NATO stuff is such propaganda, the idea has always been imperialism and to take the people and turn them into Russians.
bllguo 2y ago
in what sense could you _possibly_ argue this from both legal and realpolitik lenses the Taiwan issue is fully legitimate. your country has done far worse to Cuba for far less. Even setting aside the historical context and the Chinese civil war, what is illegitimate about not wanting an antagonistic and belligerent foreign power installing weapons in an island mere miles off the mainland coast?
kombine 2y ago
No grievances that Russia might have had can justify this devastating war, and total annihilation, and mass murder.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  not the point of my comment. war is never good, whether it is Russia invading Ukraine, China invading Taiwan, or the US invading Iraq+Afghanistan - everyone should focus on finding common ground and understanding the perspectives of others