4 ms·

They have adopted a n-2 type of rule for advanaced tech...but as of yesterday they seem to have relaxed this rule and approved transfer of 2nm from Taiwan fabs

They have adopted a n-2 type of rule for advanaced tech...but as of yesterday they seem to have relaxed this rule and approved transfer of 2nm from Taiwan fabs to the AZ fab at some point in the near future. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/tsmc-cleared-for-2nm-production-in-us https://www.extremetech.com/computing/tsmc-cleared-for-2nm-p...

lysace 2y ago
I'd be extremely surprised if Apple is now able to source CPUs for current-gen high-end iPhones from a US fab. 2 gens ago, sure.
andy_ppp 2y ago
Wow I did not know this and it is fantastic news, surprised Taiwan allowed this as they see chips as being the most important reason America would intervene if they were invaded.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  I'm a China dove and I'd favor full-throated defense of Taiwan in any invasion (much more so than Ukraine) regardless of chips.
  - d3ckard 2y ago
    I don’t disagree with the core premise, but why much more than Ukraine?
    - whimsicalism 2y ago
      Taiwan is a long-standing well-functioning democracy and a core ally. On the other side, I also view Russia's grievances as somewhat more legitimate than China's.
      - DennisP 2y ago
        Addressing those "grievances" hasn't worked out too well for Russia. They complained about Ukraine moving in the general direction of NATO membership, and got Sweden and Finland as actual new members of NATO. Finland has a longer Russian border than Ukraine, and Sweden has a regional navy that pretty much controls the Baltic Sea. Both countries were pretty firmly neutral before the war.
        bllguo 2y ago
        and that has what, exactly, to do with the legitimacy of said grievances?
        DennisP 2y ago
        Because for all of Russia's apocalyptic rhetoric about the dire consequences of NATO membership on their borders, they've done nothing significant about Finland and Sweden actually becoming NATO members while stepping up their military spending. By comparison, a little political noise about Ukraine maybe joining NATO someday is much less of a provocation, which makes it seem unlikely to have been Russia's actual reason for invasion. And from any reasonable ethical perspective it's certainly not a legitimate one.
        andy_ppp 2y ago
        The NATO stuff is such propaganda, the idea has always been imperialism and to take the people and turn them into Russians.
      - bllguo 2y ago
        in what sense could you _possibly_ argue this from both legal and realpolitik lenses the Taiwan issue is fully legitimate. your country has done far worse to Cuba for far less. Even setting aside the historical context and the Chinese civil war, what is illegitimate about not wanting an antagonistic and belligerent foreign power installing weapons in an island mere miles off the mainland coast?
      - 2y ago
- DennisP 2y ago
  In case of invasion, it's not that unlikely that the fabs in Taiwan get destroyed, or at least lose the ability to keep making and selling chips while the conflict is hot. In that case TSMC and Taiwan might prefer having a backup. As long as the US doesn't confiscate the Arizona fab, effectively siding with China, Taiwan would arguably have more leverage by still having something of immense strategic value to trade.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    The US is not going to hold on to some working fab for some Taiwan-government-in-exile. As soon as you are out of power, even your allies generally take the time to plunder what they can.
    - DennisP 2y ago
      Just like the US plundered any Ukrainian assets they could get their hands on, instead of supporting the Ukrainian government and freezing Russian assets instead?
      - whimsicalism 2y ago
        The Ukrainian government is very much still extant
        DennisP 2y ago
        Just as the Taiwan government could continue to be, despite invasion from China.
        ElevenLathe 2y ago
        In fact the RoC government is already in exile in Taiwan, though it seems unlikely that they would find another piece of real estate if they lost that.
  - throwaway-blaze 2y ago
zanderwohl 2y ago
Advanced lithography is like if a mystery cult were real: Secret knowledge only understood by the most learned initiates, tightly-guarded process, etching symbols that do things...
- lysace 2y ago
  Sadly true. Even more depressing: it's like a very complicated baking recipe arrived at by tweaking parameters over and over a again. There is no deep understanding... just a giant list of baking parameters that seem to work, sometimes. (Yes, a bit like an AI. Hmm....)

lysace 2y ago

I'd be extremely surprised if Apple is now able to source CPUs for current-gen high-end iPhones from a US fab. 2 gens ago, sure.

andy_ppp 2y ago

Wow I did not know this and it is fantastic news, surprised Taiwan allowed this as they see chips as being the most important reason America would intervene if they were invaded.

whimsicalism 2y ago
I'm a China dove and I'd favor full-throated defense of Taiwan in any invasion (much more so than Ukraine) regardless of chips.
- d3ckard 2y ago
  I don’t disagree with the core premise, but why much more than Ukraine?
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    Taiwan is a long-standing well-functioning democracy and a core ally. On the other side, I also view Russia's grievances as somewhat more legitimate than China's.
    - DennisP 2y ago
      Addressing those "grievances" hasn't worked out too well for Russia. They complained about Ukraine moving in the general direction of NATO membership, and got Sweden and Finland as actual new members of NATO. Finland has a longer Russian border than Ukraine, and Sweden has a regional navy that pretty much controls the Baltic Sea. Both countries were pretty firmly neutral before the war.
      - bllguo 2y ago
        and that has what, exactly, to do with the legitimacy of said grievances?
        DennisP 2y ago
        Because for all of Russia's apocalyptic rhetoric about the dire consequences of NATO membership on their borders, they've done nothing significant about Finland and Sweden actually becoming NATO members while stepping up their military spending. By comparison, a little political noise about Ukraine maybe joining NATO someday is much less of a provocation, which makes it seem unlikely to have been Russia's actual reason for invasion. And from any reasonable ethical perspective it's certainly not a legitimate one.
        andy_ppp 2y ago
        The NATO stuff is such propaganda, the idea has always been imperialism and to take the people and turn them into Russians.
    - bllguo 2y ago
      in what sense could you _possibly_ argue this from both legal and realpolitik lenses the Taiwan issue is fully legitimate. your country has done far worse to Cuba for far less. Even setting aside the historical context and the Chinese civil war, what is illegitimate about not wanting an antagonistic and belligerent foreign power installing weapons in an island mere miles off the mainland coast?
    - 2y ago
DennisP 2y ago
In case of invasion, it's not that unlikely that the fabs in Taiwan get destroyed, or at least lose the ability to keep making and selling chips while the conflict is hot. In that case TSMC and Taiwan might prefer having a backup. As long as the US doesn't confiscate the Arizona fab, effectively siding with China, Taiwan would arguably have more leverage by still having something of immense strategic value to trade.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  The US is not going to hold on to some working fab for some Taiwan-government-in-exile. As soon as you are out of power, even your allies generally take the time to plunder what they can.
  - DennisP 2y ago
    Just like the US plundered any Ukrainian assets they could get their hands on, instead of supporting the Ukrainian government and freezing Russian assets instead?
    - whimsicalism 2y ago
      The Ukrainian government is very much still extant
      - DennisP 2y ago
        Just as the Taiwan government could continue to be, despite invasion from China.
        ElevenLathe 2y ago
        In fact the RoC government is already in exile in Taiwan, though it seems unlikely that they would find another piece of real estate if they lost that.
- throwaway-blaze 2y ago

zanderwohl 2y ago

Advanced lithography is like if a mystery cult were real: Secret knowledge only understood by the most learned initiates, tightly-guarded process, etching symbols that do things...

lysace 2y ago
Sadly true. Even more depressing: it's like a very complicated baking recipe arrived at by tweaking parameters over and over a again. There is no deep understanding... just a giant list of baking parameters that seem to work, sometimes. (Yes, a bit like an AI. Hmm....)