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Actual liberals aren't really a prominent political force at this point. The culture war is between conservatives and progressives, and, contrary to popular opi

Actual liberals aren't really a prominent political force at this point. The culture war is between conservatives and progressives, and, contrary to popular opinion, the latter is not synonymous with liberalism - indeed, on some issues (freedom of speech being a prominent one) they are in opposition.

bee_rider 2y ago
I think most people in the US are, on some practical level, actual liberals. We can’t see it in the way a fish doesn’t see water. But I think mostly people think of themselves as accepting of others (while not wanting their own freedom of association impinged on). I think a lot of political disagreement shows up where liberal principles collide, like two people’s freedom of expression bumping into each other. Then it becomes a wrestling match for each side to get their position seen as the liberal one.
- leidenfrost 2y ago
  If people on the US were really liberal (in the original "capitalism of the free" sense), racism wouldn't even be an issue. People wouldn't care so much about race, and your genetics would be more as a "fun fact" rather than some central piece of your identity. Also, they wouldn't care about atheists so much. Liberals may not be atheists themselves but they would be very detached from religion and "who whorships who". People wouldn't take religion so seriously. The US is more like a bunch of conservatives trying to be liberal until their own beliefs trump liberal theory.
  - downrightmike 2y ago
    Which is why we say that we hope you get everything you voted for. Because it will back fire on you first. It always has, and it always will, not our fault you can't learn from your mistakes.
    - leidenfrost 2y ago
      Is that a quote? I'm not American.
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        It isn’t a quote really, just a somewhat common sentiment. People are really frustrated with some of the voting patterns in the US.
      - downrightmike 2y ago
        They voted for a bunch of horrible people to do horrible stuff, which consequentially will negatively affect those voters the most.
  - sumedh 2y ago
    > If people on the US were really liberal (in the original "capitalism of the free" sense), racism wouldn't even be an issue. These labels dont matter when your jobs are going away though.
    - leidenfrost 2y ago
      But that's a consequence of the global market, not because of immigration. Your wage is competing with the rest of the world. And if there's a country capable of the same productivity with cheaper salaries, then it's expected for the company to expand overseas.
mdhb 2y ago
As opposed to say the former who are on a book banning spree and openly threatening the media for simply making fun of their dear leader? This idea that those shouting loudest about “free speech” actually give a shit about it is really one of the most nakedly disingenuous things I’ve seen in a long time.
- animuchan 2y ago
  I think it's a false dichotomy: both sides pretend to care about free speech and other "classic liberal" values, and both sides' actions usually aren't aligned with this at all. The side that has the largest gap between stated goals and actual policies then proceeds to lose the election.

bee_rider 2y ago

I think most people in the US are, on some practical level, actual liberals. We can’t see it in the way a fish doesn’t see water. But I think mostly people think of themselves as accepting of others (while not wanting their own freedom of association impinged on). I think a lot of political disagreement shows up where liberal principles collide, like two people’s freedom of expression bumping into each other. Then it becomes a wrestling match for each side to get their position seen as the liberal one.

leidenfrost 2y ago
If people on the US were really liberal (in the original "capitalism of the free" sense), racism wouldn't even be an issue. People wouldn't care so much about race, and your genetics would be more as a "fun fact" rather than some central piece of your identity. Also, they wouldn't care about atheists so much. Liberals may not be atheists themselves but they would be very detached from religion and "who whorships who". People wouldn't take religion so seriously. The US is more like a bunch of conservatives trying to be liberal until their own beliefs trump liberal theory.
- downrightmike 2y ago
  Which is why we say that we hope you get everything you voted for. Because it will back fire on you first. It always has, and it always will, not our fault you can't learn from your mistakes.
  - leidenfrost 2y ago
    Is that a quote? I'm not American.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      It isn’t a quote really, just a somewhat common sentiment. People are really frustrated with some of the voting patterns in the US.
    - downrightmike 2y ago
      They voted for a bunch of horrible people to do horrible stuff, which consequentially will negatively affect those voters the most.
- sumedh 2y ago
  > If people on the US were really liberal (in the original "capitalism of the free" sense), racism wouldn't even be an issue. These labels dont matter when your jobs are going away though.
  - leidenfrost 2y ago
    But that's a consequence of the global market, not because of immigration. Your wage is competing with the rest of the world. And if there's a country capable of the same productivity with cheaper salaries, then it's expected for the company to expand overseas.

mdhb 2y ago

As opposed to say the former who are on a book banning spree and openly threatening the media for simply making fun of their dear leader? This idea that those shouting loudest about “free speech” actually give a shit about it is really one of the most nakedly disingenuous things I’ve seen in a long time.

animuchan 2y ago
I think it's a false dichotomy: both sides pretend to care about free speech and other "classic liberal" values, and both sides' actions usually aren't aligned with this at all. The side that has the largest gap between stated goals and actual policies then proceeds to lose the election.