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> this article is a perfect case for using Scheme as an introductory language People keep saying that. That Scheme is a perfect introductory language. I doubt

> this article is a perfect case for using Scheme as an introductory language People keep saying that. That Scheme is a perfect introductory language. I doubt though that there is _any_ evidence to suggest that students who start with Scheme end up being better programmers. I love functional programming, but I don't see any correlation between one's first programming language and their programming abilities.

endgame 14y ago
> I don't see any correlation between one's first programming language and their programming abilities. I don't see tikhonj saying that at all. I read it as an assertion that scheme is a superior language for bootstrapping people into the programmer mindset.
- perfunctory 14y ago
  > that scheme is a superior language for bootstrapping people into the programmer mindset. And I am saying that there is no evidence to support that assertion.
  - brudgers 14y ago
    One might say that a Lisp dialect overcomes the difficulty suggested by the author because: 1. Code looks less like algebra than many other languages. 2. The algebraic symbols Lisp dialects use tend to carry their algebraic meanings, e.g. "(" and "*". 3. Fewer side effects make the language read more similarly to algebra, in so far as it is centered around determine values. That's not to say that Lisp dialects are the best starting point for learning programming. Only that they appear to address the issue of syntax raised in the article.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
I disagree. Scheme is a language where you "get it" very quickly, and I think that is key to motivate people to continue. My first language was freaking Pascal, and I spent my teens thinking I either wasn't smart enough or didn't have the skill to be a programmer.
- perfunctory 14y ago
  How do you know it would be any better if you started with Scheme? Can you say you didn't get programming until you switched to scheme? Or did you get Scheme "very quickly" because you were already familiar with programming concepts?
kd0amg 14y ago
People keep saying that. That Scheme is a perfect introductory language. I doubt though that there is _any_ evidence to suggest that students who start with Scheme end up being better programmers. FWIW, http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Thoughts/coop.html http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Thoughts/coop.html

endgame 14y ago

> I don't see any correlation between one's first programming language and their programming abilities. I don't see tikhonj saying that at all. I read it as an assertion that scheme is a superior language for bootstrapping people into the programmer mindset.

perfunctory 14y ago
> that scheme is a superior language for bootstrapping people into the programmer mindset. And I am saying that there is no evidence to support that assertion.
- brudgers 14y ago
  One might say that a Lisp dialect overcomes the difficulty suggested by the author because: 1. Code looks less like algebra than many other languages. 2. The algebraic symbols Lisp dialects use tend to carry their algebraic meanings, e.g. "(" and "*". 3. Fewer side effects make the language read more similarly to algebra, in so far as it is centered around determine values. That's not to say that Lisp dialects are the best starting point for learning programming. Only that they appear to address the issue of syntax raised in the article.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

I disagree. Scheme is a language where you "get it" very quickly, and I think that is key to motivate people to continue. My first language was freaking Pascal, and I spent my teens thinking I either wasn't smart enough or didn't have the skill to be a programmer.

perfunctory 14y ago
How do you know it would be any better if you started with Scheme? Can you say you didn't get programming until you switched to scheme? Or did you get Scheme "very quickly" because you were already familiar with programming concepts?

kd0amg 14y ago

People keep saying that. That Scheme is a perfect introductory language. I doubt though that there is _any_ evidence to suggest that students who start with Scheme end up being better programmers. FWIW, http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Thoughts/coop.html http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/Thoughts/coop.html