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Yeah, it really is obvious. Here's one excellent example: the dominant right wing media apparatus knowingly engaging in a conspiratorial lie that fetched them a

Yeah, it really is obvious. Here's one excellent example: the dominant right wing media apparatus knowingly engaging in a conspiratorial lie that fetched them a $787 million punishment. https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-t...

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
Here is an excellent example that many people think you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  You must've forgotten what the conversation is about. It's about the degree to which each side is wrapped up in an outrage machine. That would be reflected in the election results, and not in the way you're implying.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    when my side wins it's good and true and when the other side wins it's the outrage machine
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      That's not my belief, which is why I didn't post the terrible evidence of election results. You did. I posted a court settlement for the crime of knowingly producing untrue, defamatory outrage at massive scale. Note how mine is evidence for my argument. Yours is evidence for nothing at all.
Satisfy4400 2y ago
It seems to me there's plenty of conspiratorial thinking on the left. The rhetoric around Project 2025 comes to mind as a recent example. Same with rhetoric around for-profit prisons (e.g., I see lots of people saying our criminal justice system is primarily profit driven). If I had to guess, I'd say such thinking is more widespread on the right, but I find it very difficult to see these sort of things clearly since I'm generally left-leaning in my politics.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Which rhetoric around Project 2025 specifically? Everything I saw claimed to be in it is actually in it, and Trump’s distance from it was complete bullshit. I haven’t heard anyone say our justice system is primarily profit-driven, and certainly haven’t heard any notable mainstreamers taking that position. One could argue lefties overplay the significance/effects of commercial incentives, but I also think it’s defensible to say there should be (to the extent possible) no commercial incentives in incarceration whatsoever.
  - Satisfy4400 2y ago
    Here's one example on prisons from a quick Kagi search: "Currently, many think that the goals of [American Prison System] APS are to rehabilitate inmates and help them function properly in the real world. However, the APS’s high recidivism rate and methods of revenue creation support the conclusion that increasing the prison population may be the real goal of the APS." https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-prison-system-its-just-business/ https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-pr...
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      The prison system is not “the justice system.” Yes, if a prison makes money from incarcerating people, its natural goal will be to incarcerate people. For-profit prisons also have higher chances of recidivism, which bears this out as well.

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago

Here is an excellent example that many people think you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections

llamaimperative 2y ago
You must've forgotten what the conversation is about. It's about the degree to which each side is wrapped up in an outrage machine. That would be reflected in the election results, and not in the way you're implying.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  when my side wins it's good and true and when the other side wins it's the outrage machine
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    That's not my belief, which is why I didn't post the terrible evidence of election results. You did. I posted a court settlement for the crime of knowingly producing untrue, defamatory outrage at massive scale. Note how mine is evidence for my argument. Yours is evidence for nothing at all.

Satisfy4400 2y ago

It seems to me there's plenty of conspiratorial thinking on the left. The rhetoric around Project 2025 comes to mind as a recent example. Same with rhetoric around for-profit prisons (e.g., I see lots of people saying our criminal justice system is primarily profit driven). If I had to guess, I'd say such thinking is more widespread on the right, but I find it very difficult to see these sort of things clearly since I'm generally left-leaning in my politics.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Which rhetoric around Project 2025 specifically? Everything I saw claimed to be in it is actually in it, and Trump’s distance from it was complete bullshit. I haven’t heard anyone say our justice system is primarily profit-driven, and certainly haven’t heard any notable mainstreamers taking that position. One could argue lefties overplay the significance/effects of commercial incentives, but I also think it’s defensible to say there should be (to the extent possible) no commercial incentives in incarceration whatsoever.
- Satisfy4400 2y ago
  Here's one example on prisons from a quick Kagi search: "Currently, many think that the goals of [American Prison System] APS are to rehabilitate inmates and help them function properly in the real world. However, the APS’s high recidivism rate and methods of revenue creation support the conclusion that increasing the prison population may be the real goal of the APS." https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-prison-system-its-just-business/ https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-pr...
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    The prison system is not “the justice system.” Yes, if a prison makes money from incarcerating people, its natural goal will be to incarcerate people. For-profit prisons also have higher chances of recidivism, which bears this out as well.