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I don’t find it that interesting because it’s obviously a consequence of our information environment. We have constructed algorithmic outrage machines and defer

I don’t find it that interesting because it’s obviously a consequence of our information environment. We have constructed algorithmic outrage machines and deferred thought and curation to them. It’s far more interesting to me how one side of the political spectrum was so totally swallowed by this system, to the extent that literally every single news story is received with outlandish conspiracy theorizing from rather mainstream right wing media. The null hypothesis is that actually both sides should be equally distorted, but it is very obviously the case they are not. That is what deserves inquiry.

geodel 2y ago
> but it is very obviously the case they are not. It not obvious and also doesn't seem true at all. Still one may continue to investigate with this assumption but then result will neither be truth or much useful.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Yeah, it really is obvious. Here's one excellent example: the dominant right wing media apparatus knowingly engaging in a conspiratorial lie that fetched them a $787 million punishment. https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-t...
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    Here is an excellent example that many people think you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      You must've forgotten what the conversation is about. It's about the degree to which each side is wrapped up in an outrage machine. That would be reflected in the election results, and not in the way you're implying.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        when my side wins it's good and true and when the other side wins it's the outrage machine
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        That's not my belief, which is why I didn't post the terrible evidence of election results. You did. I posted a court settlement for the crime of knowingly producing untrue, defamatory outrage at massive scale. Note how mine is evidence for my argument. Yours is evidence for nothing at all.
  - Satisfy4400 2y ago
    It seems to me there's plenty of conspiratorial thinking on the left. The rhetoric around Project 2025 comes to mind as a recent example. Same with rhetoric around for-profit prisons (e.g., I see lots of people saying our criminal justice system is primarily profit driven). If I had to guess, I'd say such thinking is more widespread on the right, but I find it very difficult to see these sort of things clearly since I'm generally left-leaning in my politics.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Which rhetoric around Project 2025 specifically? Everything I saw claimed to be in it is actually in it, and Trump’s distance from it was complete bullshit. I haven’t heard anyone say our justice system is primarily profit-driven, and certainly haven’t heard any notable mainstreamers taking that position. One could argue lefties overplay the significance/effects of commercial incentives, but I also think it’s defensible to say there should be (to the extent possible) no commercial incentives in incarceration whatsoever.
      - Satisfy4400 2y ago
        Here's one example on prisons from a quick Kagi search: "Currently, many think that the goals of [American Prison System] APS are to rehabilitate inmates and help them function properly in the real world. However, the APS’s high recidivism rate and methods of revenue creation support the conclusion that increasing the prison population may be the real goal of the APS." https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-prison-system-its-just-business/ https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-pr...
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        The prison system is not “the justice system.” Yes, if a prison makes money from incarcerating people, its natural goal will be to incarcerate people. For-profit prisons also have higher chances of recidivism, which bears this out as well.
- RajT88 2y ago
  I would agree it's not obvious - but also if you don't think it's true, I'd love to hear why you think that. If you have numbers, even better.

geodel 2y ago

> but it is very obviously the case they are not. It not obvious and also doesn't seem true at all. Still one may continue to investigate with this assumption but then result will neither be truth or much useful.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Yeah, it really is obvious. Here's one excellent example: the dominant right wing media apparatus knowingly engaging in a conspiratorial lie that fetched them a $787 million punishment. https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-t...
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  Here is an excellent example that many people think you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    You must've forgotten what the conversation is about. It's about the degree to which each side is wrapped up in an outrage machine. That would be reflected in the election results, and not in the way you're implying.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      when my side wins it's good and true and when the other side wins it's the outrage machine
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        That's not my belief, which is why I didn't post the terrible evidence of election results. You did. I posted a court settlement for the crime of knowingly producing untrue, defamatory outrage at massive scale. Note how mine is evidence for my argument. Yours is evidence for nothing at all.
- Satisfy4400 2y ago
  It seems to me there's plenty of conspiratorial thinking on the left. The rhetoric around Project 2025 comes to mind as a recent example. Same with rhetoric around for-profit prisons (e.g., I see lots of people saying our criminal justice system is primarily profit driven). If I had to guess, I'd say such thinking is more widespread on the right, but I find it very difficult to see these sort of things clearly since I'm generally left-leaning in my politics.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Which rhetoric around Project 2025 specifically? Everything I saw claimed to be in it is actually in it, and Trump’s distance from it was complete bullshit. I haven’t heard anyone say our justice system is primarily profit-driven, and certainly haven’t heard any notable mainstreamers taking that position. One could argue lefties overplay the significance/effects of commercial incentives, but I also think it’s defensible to say there should be (to the extent possible) no commercial incentives in incarceration whatsoever.
    - Satisfy4400 2y ago
      Here's one example on prisons from a quick Kagi search: "Currently, many think that the goals of [American Prison System] APS are to rehabilitate inmates and help them function properly in the real world. However, the APS’s high recidivism rate and methods of revenue creation support the conclusion that increasing the prison population may be the real goal of the APS." https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-prison-system-its-just-business/ https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/12/09/the-american-pr...
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        The prison system is not “the justice system.” Yes, if a prison makes money from incarcerating people, its natural goal will be to incarcerate people. For-profit prisons also have higher chances of recidivism, which bears this out as well.
RajT88 2y ago
I would agree it's not obvious - but also if you don't think it's true, I'd love to hear why you think that. If you have numbers, even better.