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Congrats to the SDF team for their exit. Alas, dbt Labs has developed a reputation for rug pulling functionality from dbt Core and gating most of their differe

Congrats to the SDF team for their exit. Alas, dbt Labs has developed a reputation for rug pulling functionality from dbt Core and gating most of their differentiating features behind dbt Cloud. I cannot see this type of consolidation being in the best interest of the dbt community.

mritchie712 2y ago
I've been on the lookout for a lighter, faster version of dbt and I was hoping sdf might be it. For our (https://www.definite.app/ https://www.definite.app/) use case, I'd love to have something that compiles client-side, but in general dbt just feels like a lot of work to set up for what most of our customers actually need (simple transform to create tables and views).
- thenaturalist 2y ago
  A lot of work to set up? I'm quite surprised to hear that. It's literally pip install, a single file for your DB config and that's it. 30-40 seconds. I'm in no way affiliated with dbt but have worked with the tool since 2018. Lighter, faster, sure, but hard to set up? I'm not sure where you'd want to cut corners on setup.
  - apwell23 2y ago
    I think they mean setting up in production.
    - thenaturalist 2y ago
      Even that... the beauty of it and why it took off as much as it did is simplicity. Dockerfile, env var injection and you're done.
- dangoldin 2y ago
  I'm sure you've heard of SQLMesh but that seems like a potential fit. Or is it still too heavy handed?
suchar 2y ago
Could you point to some functionalities removed from dbt Core? I love dbt and use it where applicable but I have not yet encountered a loss of features upon upgrade yet - it would be useful to be aware what kind of features get removed
- juanramos 2y ago
  Checking their own post, https://www.getdbt.com/product/dbt-core-vs-dbt-cloud https://www.getdbt.com/product/dbt-core-vs-dbt-cloud, stuff such as the semantic layer and column-level lineage are Cloud exclusive
  - apwell23 2y ago
    those were never in the core though.
- trickyager 2y ago
  A brief list of features withheld or removed from Core: - The dbt docs functionality is no longer maintained in favor of dbt Explorer in dbt cloud. A natural consequence is that larger dbt Core projects simply cannot leverage local docs due to performance defects. - Multi-project support was widely discussed in the core repo w/ tooling contributions from the community, but that was locked behind enterprise-tier dbt cloud accounts - Metricflow was a full OSS application that used to work in tandem with dbt Core. Post-acquisition, the original code was re-licensed and the functionality added to Cloud only (and you have to pay per semantic layer query now).
datadrivenangel 2y ago
Not to mention the sudden pricing change at the end of 2022 that doubled costs for most cloud customers.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
thenaturalist 2y ago
dbt Labs is a Series D company with hundreds of millions in funding and a 4.2 billion USD valuation at their last round. Their CEO and founder spoke of an IPO in 2022. Let's not pretend they are still remotely close to their humble beginnings or were able to get this far without credibly demonstrating they have a plan for how to make enterprises bleed through their nose for their product. That's the future. On the flipside, building a dbt adjacent product enhancing or complementing capabilities is basically a sure way of how to get bought.
- trickyager 2y ago
  I agree with you 100%, and we may both be correct!
CalRobert 2y ago
We're using Dagster cloud with integrated DBT core and I don't really see what the draw of DBT cloud is - perhaps a bit easier to get set up?
- nxm 2y ago
  Column level lineage for one
itsoktocry 2y ago
Have they introduced any interesting features outside of core? Most of it seems like fluff, or there are better alternatives.
- bcoates 2y ago
  Yeah my experience is much closer to that, I generally point my clients to core over cloud even if they're indifferent to the cost. (Sorry dbt guys, love your product, but somebody read the strategy memo backwards and you've got lock-out not lock-in. Replacing my IDE, ci/cd, or orchestration are "dealbreakers", not "features")

mritchie712 2y ago

I've been on the lookout for a lighter, faster version of dbt and I was hoping sdf might be it. For our (https://www.definite.app/ https://www.definite.app/) use case, I'd love to have something that compiles client-side, but in general dbt just feels like a lot of work to set up for what most of our customers actually need (simple transform to create tables and views).

thenaturalist 2y ago
A lot of work to set up? I'm quite surprised to hear that. It's literally pip install, a single file for your DB config and that's it. 30-40 seconds. I'm in no way affiliated with dbt but have worked with the tool since 2018. Lighter, faster, sure, but hard to set up? I'm not sure where you'd want to cut corners on setup.
- apwell23 2y ago
  I think they mean setting up in production.
  - thenaturalist 2y ago
    Even that... the beauty of it and why it took off as much as it did is simplicity. Dockerfile, env var injection and you're done.
dangoldin 2y ago
I'm sure you've heard of SQLMesh but that seems like a potential fit. Or is it still too heavy handed?

suchar 2y ago

Could you point to some functionalities removed from dbt Core? I love dbt and use it where applicable but I have not yet encountered a loss of features upon upgrade yet - it would be useful to be aware what kind of features get removed

juanramos 2y ago
Checking their own post, https://www.getdbt.com/product/dbt-core-vs-dbt-cloud https://www.getdbt.com/product/dbt-core-vs-dbt-cloud, stuff such as the semantic layer and column-level lineage are Cloud exclusive
- apwell23 2y ago
  those were never in the core though.
trickyager 2y ago
A brief list of features withheld or removed from Core: - The dbt docs functionality is no longer maintained in favor of dbt Explorer in dbt cloud. A natural consequence is that larger dbt Core projects simply cannot leverage local docs due to performance defects. - Multi-project support was widely discussed in the core repo w/ tooling contributions from the community, but that was locked behind enterprise-tier dbt cloud accounts - Metricflow was a full OSS application that used to work in tandem with dbt Core. Post-acquisition, the original code was re-licensed and the functionality added to Cloud only (and you have to pay per semantic layer query now).

datadrivenangel 2y ago

Not to mention the sudden pricing change at the end of 2022 that doubled costs for most cloud customers.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

thenaturalist 2y ago

dbt Labs is a Series D company with hundreds of millions in funding and a 4.2 billion USD valuation at their last round. Their CEO and founder spoke of an IPO in 2022. Let's not pretend they are still remotely close to their humble beginnings or were able to get this far without credibly demonstrating they have a plan for how to make enterprises bleed through their nose for their product. That's the future. On the flipside, building a dbt adjacent product enhancing or complementing capabilities is basically a sure way of how to get bought.

trickyager 2y ago
I agree with you 100%, and we may both be correct!

CalRobert 2y ago

We're using Dagster cloud with integrated DBT core and I don't really see what the draw of DBT cloud is - perhaps a bit easier to get set up?

nxm 2y ago
Column level lineage for one

itsoktocry 2y ago

Have they introduced any interesting features outside of core? Most of it seems like fluff, or there are better alternatives.

bcoates 2y ago
Yeah my experience is much closer to that, I generally point my clients to core over cloud even if they're indifferent to the cost. (Sorry dbt guys, love your product, but somebody read the strategy memo backwards and you've got lock-out not lock-in. Replacing my IDE, ci/cd, or orchestration are "dealbreakers", not "features")