3 ms·

This sort of work usually costs 3x what is should, because the firm doing the work has to pay state minimum wage and/or hire union labor.

rafram 2y ago
Would it be better if they hired non-union labor at $5/hour (1/3 the minimum wage)? Would you apply for that job?
- ars 2y ago
  Obviously that would be better. If no one applied for the job you raise rates until someone does. You don't artificially start unnecessarily high. If you do you are basically stealing from taxpayers to give gifts to unions.
  - rafram 2y ago
    Fortunately for the workers, paying below minimum wage is illegal. (And for what it’s worth, it’s really hard to hire even at minimum wage these days. McDonald’s pays well above $15 in most metro areas - including in states which use the federal minimum.)
    - ars 2y ago
      The actual scenario at hand is paying 3x wages "just because". You said 1/3 minimum wage as a strawman. Not to mention minimum wages aren't necessary anyway - like you said "it’s really hard to hire even at minimum wage these days". Pay market wages, without external forces driving wages higher. Because, higher wages means higher costs, and if you are government that's essentially theft from your taxpayers.
simiones 2y ago
Minimum wage in California seems to be $16 an hour. I doubt this intersection took 37 500 man-hours to finish, so I don't think the cost is explained by wages. Also, $200K would still seem like a gigantic amount of money for adding stop lights to a single intersection.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  You probably need an engineer. A couple. They might have to run traffic studies beforehand to estimate the design requirements and light timing. They might have to consider other network nodes beyond this in their modeling. They might have to also run studies afterward to retime the lights to meet realized demand. I’m surprised its not a $6m project honestly.
  - danenania 2y ago
    There's a proposal to redo a playground in San Mateo's central park—bids have come in around $16M. https://www.cityofsanmateo.org/4142/Central-Park-Playground-Renovation https://www.cityofsanmateo.org/4142/Central-Park-Playground-... It's a nice playground design for sure, but it's kind of amazing to consider what could be built privately for the same amount. You could literally build a palace on a giant estate with fancy landscaping, a swimming pool, tennis courts, movie theater, etc. Of course there are reasons why public projects are more expensive, but it does seem pretty crazy on the surface.
whimsicalism 2y ago
the issue is the prevailing wage requirement (3x+ minimum wage). it would be easy to complete this cheaply with just minimum wage labor

rafram 2y ago

Would it be better if they hired non-union labor at $5/hour (1/3 the minimum wage)? Would you apply for that job?

ars 2y ago
Obviously that would be better. If no one applied for the job you raise rates until someone does. You don't artificially start unnecessarily high. If you do you are basically stealing from taxpayers to give gifts to unions.
- rafram 2y ago
  Fortunately for the workers, paying below minimum wage is illegal. (And for what it’s worth, it’s really hard to hire even at minimum wage these days. McDonald’s pays well above $15 in most metro areas - including in states which use the federal minimum.)
  - ars 2y ago
    The actual scenario at hand is paying 3x wages "just because". You said 1/3 minimum wage as a strawman. Not to mention minimum wages aren't necessary anyway - like you said "it’s really hard to hire even at minimum wage these days". Pay market wages, without external forces driving wages higher. Because, higher wages means higher costs, and if you are government that's essentially theft from your taxpayers.

simiones 2y ago

Minimum wage in California seems to be $16 an hour. I doubt this intersection took 37 500 man-hours to finish, so I don't think the cost is explained by wages. Also, $200K would still seem like a gigantic amount of money for adding stop lights to a single intersection.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kjkjadksj 2y ago
You probably need an engineer. A couple. They might have to run traffic studies beforehand to estimate the design requirements and light timing. They might have to consider other network nodes beyond this in their modeling. They might have to also run studies afterward to retime the lights to meet realized demand. I’m surprised its not a $6m project honestly.
- danenania 2y ago
  There's a proposal to redo a playground in San Mateo's central park—bids have come in around $16M. https://www.cityofsanmateo.org/4142/Central-Park-Playground-Renovation https://www.cityofsanmateo.org/4142/Central-Park-Playground-... It's a nice playground design for sure, but it's kind of amazing to consider what could be built privately for the same amount. You could literally build a palace on a giant estate with fancy landscaping, a swimming pool, tennis courts, movie theater, etc. Of course there are reasons why public projects are more expensive, but it does seem pretty crazy on the surface.

whimsicalism 2y ago

the issue is the prevailing wage requirement (3x+ minimum wage). it would be easy to complete this cheaply with just minimum wage labor