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I wasn't suggesting an equivalence, just that the phenomena of the rage machine exists on both sides. As an exercise, try coming up with some metric to measure

by RajT88 2y ago

I wasn't suggesting an equivalence, just that the phenomena of the rage machine exists on both sides. As an exercise, try coming up with some metric to measure it. Could be inflammatory posts, or the comment count on inflammatory posts. Compare BB BBS with some rough equivalent right-leaning place. You'll find it's worse in the right-leaning forum, no doubt. But the phenomena exists on both sides of the political spectrum. Many trends among one side of the political spectrum are mirrored to a lesser extent on the other side as well, and that's interesting don't you think?

llamaimperative 2y ago
I don’t find it that interesting because it’s obviously a consequence of our information environment. We have constructed algorithmic outrage machines and deferred thought and curation to them. It’s far more interesting to me how one side of the political spectrum was so totally swallowed by this system, to the extent that literally every single news story is received with outlandish conspiracy theorizing from rather mainstream right wing media. The null hypothesis is that actually both sides should be equally distorted, but it is very obviously the case they are not. That is what deserves inquiry.
- geodel 2y ago
  > but it is very obviously the case they are not. It not obvious and also doesn't seem true at all. Still one may continue to investigate with this assumption but then result will neither be truth or much useful.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Yeah, it really is obvious. Here's one excellent example: the dominant right wing media apparatus knowingly engaging in a conspiratorial lie that fetched them a $787 million punishment. https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-t...
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      Here is an excellent example that many people think you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        You must've forgotten what the conversation is about. It's about the degree to which each side is wrapped up in an outrage machine. That would be reflected in the election results, and not in the way you're implying.
        ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        when my side wins it's good and true and when the other side wins it's the outrage machine
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        That's not my belief, which is why I didn't post the terrible evidence of election results. You did. I posted a court settlement for the crime of knowingly producing untrue, defamatory outrage at massive scale. Note how mine is evidence for my argument. Yours is evidence for nothing at all.
    - Satisfy4400 2y ago
      It seems to me there's plenty of conspiratorial thinking on the left. The rhetoric around Project 2025 comes to mind as a recent example. Same with rhetoric around for-profit prisons (e.g., I see lots of people saying our criminal justice system is primarily profit driven). If I had to guess, I'd say such thinking is more widespread on the right, but I find it very difficult to see these sort of things clearly since I'm generally left-leaning in my politics.
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
  - RajT88 2y ago
    I would agree it's not obvious - but also if you don't think it's true, I'd love to hear why you think that. If you have numbers, even better.
standardUser 2y ago
You seem to have dodged the larger point that right wing rage is a mainstream phenomenon and a dominant force across television, radio, podcasts and social media, whereas comparably hateful and violent language on the left is mostly only in the margins.
- Satisfy4400 2y ago
  The glorification of Luigi Mangione in some left-leaning circles seems to be a counterpoint to your assertion.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Addressed with polling data below. There is no evidence of a significant left/right divide on this issue.
  - NickC25 2y ago
    The only divide is pushed from the corporate media who desperately wants 1. this to be a left/right issue and 2. for everyone to stfu because United spends billions of dollars advertising on said media's platforms. Luigi's selfless act of heroism on the behalf of the American middle and lower classes should be treated as such. You'll find that United Fraudcare doesn't discriminate on left/right when it comes to denying care to those who need it most. The same can be said for the victims of United denying them services that they paid handsomely for over the course of several years.
    - BlueTemplar 2y ago
      But it is a left/right issue : this obviously wouldn't have happened in a socialist country. (You would still have had issues with higher status people sometimes getting much better healthcare of course.) The problem here is that people confuse left/right with Democrat/Republican and seem to think that Trump is on the right just because he used the Republican party : he is no more on the right than the Nazis, who deployed both left leaning and right leaning policies when those suited them.

by RajT88 2y ago

llamaimperative 2y ago

I don’t find it that interesting because it’s obviously a consequence of our information environment. We have constructed algorithmic outrage machines and deferred thought and curation to them. It’s far more interesting to me how one side of the political spectrum was so totally swallowed by this system, to the extent that literally every single news story is received with outlandish conspiracy theorizing from rather mainstream right wing media. The null hypothesis is that actually both sides should be equally distorted, but it is very obviously the case they are not. That is what deserves inquiry.

geodel 2y ago
> but it is very obviously the case they are not. It not obvious and also doesn't seem true at all. Still one may continue to investigate with this assumption but then result will neither be truth or much useful.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Yeah, it really is obvious. Here's one excellent example: the dominant right wing media apparatus knowingly engaging in a conspiratorial lie that fetched them a $787 million punishment. https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe https://apnews.com/article/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit-trial-t...
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    Here is an excellent example that many people think you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_elections
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      You must've forgotten what the conversation is about. It's about the degree to which each side is wrapped up in an outrage machine. That would be reflected in the election results, and not in the way you're implying.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        when my side wins it's good and true and when the other side wins it's the outrage machine
        llamaimperative 2y ago
        That's not my belief, which is why I didn't post the terrible evidence of election results. You did. I posted a court settlement for the crime of knowingly producing untrue, defamatory outrage at massive scale. Note how mine is evidence for my argument. Yours is evidence for nothing at all.
  - Satisfy4400 2y ago
    It seems to me there's plenty of conspiratorial thinking on the left. The rhetoric around Project 2025 comes to mind as a recent example. Same with rhetoric around for-profit prisons (e.g., I see lots of people saying our criminal justice system is primarily profit driven). If I had to guess, I'd say such thinking is more widespread on the right, but I find it very difficult to see these sort of things clearly since I'm generally left-leaning in my politics.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
- RajT88 2y ago
  I would agree it's not obvious - but also if you don't think it's true, I'd love to hear why you think that. If you have numbers, even better.

standardUser 2y ago

You seem to have dodged the larger point that right wing rage is a mainstream phenomenon and a dominant force across television, radio, podcasts and social media, whereas comparably hateful and violent language on the left is mostly only in the margins.

Satisfy4400 2y ago
The glorification of Luigi Mangione in some left-leaning circles seems to be a counterpoint to your assertion.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Addressed with polling data below. There is no evidence of a significant left/right divide on this issue.
- NickC25 2y ago
  The only divide is pushed from the corporate media who desperately wants 1. this to be a left/right issue and 2. for everyone to stfu because United spends billions of dollars advertising on said media's platforms. Luigi's selfless act of heroism on the behalf of the American middle and lower classes should be treated as such. You'll find that United Fraudcare doesn't discriminate on left/right when it comes to denying care to those who need it most. The same can be said for the victims of United denying them services that they paid handsomely for over the course of several years.
  - BlueTemplar 2y ago
    But it is a left/right issue : this obviously wouldn't have happened in a socialist country. (You would still have had issues with higher status people sometimes getting much better healthcare of course.) The problem here is that people confuse left/right with Democrat/Republican and seem to think that Trump is on the right just because he used the Republican party : he is no more on the right than the Nazis, who deployed both left leaning and right leaning policies when those suited them.