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For me it was Musk. I had a finger on the trigger for an M3, which is an amazing car for the price, but then he just didn't know when to stop talking and I've s
by Toutouxc 2y ago
For me it was Musk. I had a finger on the trigger for an M3, which is an amazing car for the price, but then he just didn't know when to stop talking and I've sort of lost a lot of that enthusiasm. So now I'm waiting for the legacy brands to step up, which they unfortunately aren't really doing.
- tvbusy 2y agoSo true. I'm selling my car to switch to an electric one and used to be really interested In Tesla.
- verdverm 2y agoIoniq 6 is an awesome alternative to the Model 3. I picked one up last fall and couldn't be happier
- bekantan 2y agoAny significant differences in charging experience? Can you use Tesla Supercharging network?
- thomspoon 2y agoAFAIK newer ones come with the NACS charger, older ones you have to buy the adapter
- coldpie 2y ago2025 Ioniq 5s have the NACS port (only in NA markets, obviously). I don't think the 2025 Ioniq 6s do, though they probably will for the next model year. Like you said, CCS-equipped cars can use the Tesla network with a NACS-to-CCS adapter.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y agoThe article is about Europe, which has standardised on CCS2 charging. Including since 2018, Tesla. None come with NACS. So European Teslas and Hyundai's have used the same plug since then. AFAIK, many UK and EU Tesla superchargers are open to other cars. ( https://www.carwow.co.uk/editorial/going-electric/ev-charging/can-non-tesla-cars-use-tesla-superchargers https://www.carwow.co.uk/editorial/going-electric/ev-chargin... )
- bbatha 2y agoThey say that the NACs adapter will be free to existing customers, but have not made any details aside from "2025" available yet.
- sudosysgen 2y agoYou can use the Tesla network, in some markets they are even giving out free NACS adapters for older cars that aren't already NACS.
- verdverm 2y agoI6 has the 800V architecture, 20-80% in under 20m Hyundai has an EV platform that is shared across a number of models. Sandy Munroe has a video on it and why he thinks it is a great idea
- fullstop 2y agoI looked at those as well, but the ICCU issues were enough to deter me. I do a fair amount of highway driving and the thought of suddenly dropping from highway speeds to 12 MPH was somewhat chilling. Maybe they are not as common as it seems.
- coldpie 2y agoI think that's solved by a recall, so if the car you're looking at is either new or has already had the 12V battery serviced, it should not be an issue.
- verdverm 2y agoI just dropped mine off for recall, it's not a big issue and if you don't own one yet, it will already be fixed.
- fullstop 2y agoWhen I looked into it, people who had the recall performed had it happen again. This made me suspect that they were trying to correct a hardware problem with software, or that the software was somehow able to damage the hardware if it wasn't updated in time. That was on the EV6, though, but they share the same eGMP platform.
- verdverm 2y agoThe recall has gone through multiple stages and expansions. At this point they are replacing the ICCU fullstop 1. Software fix 2. Replace fuse 3. Replace the ICCU and be done with it
- fullstop 2y agoRegarding #3, are they actually available now? At one point they were seemingly made of unobtanium.
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- fullstop 2y agoI went with an Equinox EV. It's not outstanding in any particular area, but it's good in all of them. It drives like a car with a battery and not a battery with wheels.
- lokimedes 2y agoI was all set on a model-3, but found the quality lacking at the price. Bought a BMW 3-series hybrid at a comparable price, and is so happy about my choice. Their fully electric cars are fine too. With the dystopian turn of Musk, I will never consider a Tesla again.
- hnburnsy 2y agoSo when the warranty expires, you have two separate engines that your dealer will be repairing. https://bmwinsights.com/why-are-bmws-so-unreliable/ https://bmwinsights.com/why-are-bmws-so-unreliable/
- lokimedes 2y agoMy friends with Teslas seems to have more than their fair share of issues too. I haven’t yet had any problems with my car so far, at 90000km total, with 40000km on the electric motor.
- redrove 2y agoBMW ranked #8 in reliability for 2024 according to Consumer Reports [0]. Below Subaru, Toyota, Honda, Mazda and the like, Above Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, and way more reliable than Ford, Volvo, Volkswagen, Tesla (who is at #17), GM vehicles. [0] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-s...
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y agoIf the legacy brands don't step up very soon, the Korean and Chinese brands are doing so. Some should be on sale near you.
- unshavedyak 2y agoSame. I ended up picking up a Rivian, though until the R2 comes out that's a pretty big price to pay for personal beliefs. I love the car though, quite happy. Hope they do well with the R2, Tesla could use some cheaper/modern competition.
- coldpie 2y agoHyundai seems to be the top of the EV game currently. We went with an Ioniq 5. Unfortunately not a ton of EV sedan options out there, yet, but they're starting to come online, with stuff like the Ioniq 6.
- floxy 2y agoThe Ioniq 5 has a low reliability according to Consumer Reports. Lower than their gas models. I suppose it is all the ICCU and 12V battery failures. Same story with the KIA EV6. I guess those ended up with better reliability than Rivian, for what it is worth.
- EcommerceFlow 2y agoYou should get a Ford or Volkswagen, they have a much better track record.
- hnburnsy 2y agoUmmmmm, doors flying open at highway speed on ID 4 EV... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/volkswagen-halts-id-4-production-and-sales-due-to-bad-door-handles/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/09/volkswagen-halts-id-4-p...
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoI think the commenter was sarcastically referencing their historical roots as a Nazi project (Volkswagen) and Nazi-supporting, Hilter-inspiring, anti-semite (Henry Ford)
- pcardoso 2y agoSame for me. The new model Y is sweet, even keeps the indicator stalk, but I can't buy one and knowingly be supporting Musk. Keeping my diesel for a bit longer and eventually buy an EV from any another brand. EU, Korea, China, plenty of choice now.
- pj_mukh 2y agoSame, and now I'm actually leaning towards a Plug-in hybrid because the legacy brands are so bad (bad range, bad charging network). What a monumental dissolution in brand. I can only hope its felt quickly enough by Tesla's bottomline so it can a) either be reversed, or b) be an example to future entrepreneurs. P.S: a) could be accelerated with some demonstrated excellence in Tesla Autopilot, it's possible, that would bring me back.
- msluyter 2y agoYou're not alone. Type "best ev that's" into Google and the first autocomplete will be "best ev that's not a Tesla."
- ddalex 2y agoElectric Volvos are super nice.
- siliconc0w 2y agoYou can always get a used Tesla. I'm in a similar boat - FSD 13 looks really good and if it actually gets to 'personal driver' territory, it'd be hard not buy a Tesla.
- regnull 2y agoI had a model Y before, and after it became clear that I'm not extending my lease (thanks Mr. Musk), I test-drove a few alternatives, Mustang EV, IONIQ 5 & 6, etc. Ended up getting BMW I4, and man, this beats Tesla in every way. Yes, software might be not as perfect, but as a car to drive, it's so much better.
- tirant 2y agoIn 2022 I bought my first EV, a BMW i4. It was an impressive am car and still is: second only to Tesla Model 3 when it comes to efficiency and superior to Tesla in terms of features and driving assistant systems. BMW and Tesla both refreshed their i4 and Model 3 models las year. And the improvement in the Model 3 has been noticeable: better efficiency and range, also better driving dynamics and added features. BMW has barely changed anything, same motors and batteries, just a slightly newer infotainment system and new aesthetic. Not only that, some features are actually gone like the laser lights. The FSD in the Tesla has improved also lots since 2022, while BMW Driving Assistant is still the same we had in 2022. Robust, but no new features. I think Tesla is really doing a great job of improving their vehicles compared to legacy OEMs. I guess the i4 will only get real improvements with their next model in 2027.
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- rcarmo 2y agoThis is a sentiment I’ve had echoed across most of my techie friends. We probably relate more to what Musk says (and US politics towards the tech sector) than the average car buyer, and it is just a major turnoff.
- _yb2s 2y agoI don't see any way for Tesla to survive as a company unless they can completely disconnect from Musk. In urban/leftist/yuppie circles- the only people that actually buy high end EVs new- it is socially taboo now to buy a Tesla, and the people already owning them are embarrassed, and hoping to get rid of them soon. The cybertruck is especially taboo and called names like the "incElCamino." I think there is a big potential to capture the rural more right leaning market with EVs that have more range, offroad ability, and torque than ICE vehicles- but this will be done by brands like Jeep, Ford, and Scout through EVs with ICE range extenders that can operate outside of a charging network.
- JeremyNT 2y ago> I don't see any way for Tesla to survive as a company unless they can completely disconnect from Musk. In urban/leftist/yuppie circles- the only people that actually buy high end EVs new- it is socially taboo now to buy a Tesla, and the people already owning them are embarrassed, and hoping to get rid of them soon. The cybertruck is especially taboo and called names like the "incElCamino." If you come to the richer southern cities the picture is very different than what you describe. I'm living in Nashville TN right now and there are Teslas everywhere. Many Republicans proudly have big lifted pickup trucks and Teslas (and a LOT of cybertrucks). So while becoming an outspoken culture warrior may have cost Musk's brand some support in blue states, it has dramatically increased its appeal in "real America" where people love showing off their masculinity through their vehicles. I suspect the Cybertruck will dominate the legacy auto makers in the EV pickup segment.
- taylodl 2y agoSo their anti-EV sentiment for the past 10 years was all BS? Got it.
- JeremyNT 2y agoI certainly wouldn't say that - I would say that here in "real America" they (meaning rich or "middle class" people with disposable income who engage in the culture war stuff) want to buy vehicles that are good at owning the libs. It used to be that owning the libs was pretty simple, use more gasoline in a big lifted pickup truck. But now there are other ways to own the libs... you can also buy your electric cars from a rich guy who owns the libs. It's the free market at work!
- r00fus 2y agoI rented seven EVs this last summer (h/t Turo) and we ended up with a Kia EV6. Not a perfect car, but one my family loved more than the others. If we wanted something larger, the EV9 is also fantastic. I'd recommend trying ones out and picking one. We're not at China-levels of EV options but many do exist at most price/luxury levels. Our other car is a Ford Focus EV which I wish they still sold (I got mine new for $20k about 7 years ago).
- rstuart4133 2y agoI spent a month in Germany a few years ago. The German government had put up some strong incentives to prompt the move to EV's. Germany has a large car manufacturing base, and those incentives meant every one of them had EV's. Every German EV I saw was an ICE chassis retrofitted with batteries and an electric motor. For example they all had the hump intruding into the cabin space for the non-existent exhaust. Almost none had a frunk - it was needed for batteries or something. As a consequence the purpose built Tesla's were miles ahead. I had no idea why anybody bought these German EV's at time time, but it seemed like most Germans did. If that's changed and Europeans making great EV's is what is driving down the sales of Tesla's then that is great news. But I live in Australia, and Tesla sales are having their edge taken off them here too. We don't make cars. There is one, and only country making a material dent in Tesla's EV sales. That is EV's from China. (Tesla's EV's sold here are also made in China, of course.) It's mostly because of price. Despite the noise in the comments, I haven't met a single person who based their decision on Musk's personality. The things that tilt them towards other brands are price and a more conventional design (things like indicator stalks, displays in front of the driver, rain sensors that work). But these other brands are new, and meanwhile Tesla has very impressive service (BYD has suffered from widely publicised failures), an impressive charger network, and a track record. For now Tesla still dominates. But the real story is China is made just about every EV sold here. The ICE's we import are made in a variety of places Japan, USA, Europe, and recently a few from China. But if this trend continues there will only be one country making the cars we import in 10 years time.
- maeil 2y agoWhile this is an oversimplification, my understanding is that it roughly goes like this; BMWs are decent. Other European brands' EVs are a bit of a joke. Korean ones are solid. US big manufacturers are somewhere inbetween. The Hyundai Ioniq series is probably the best value for money on average for those who don't want a Tesla or Chinese EV.
- mulmen 2y agoAn M3 is a BMW. If you are talking about Teslas the car is called a Model 3. You can’t shorten it to M3 because that’s already a car. This is why a Musk didn’t get to call it Model E like he wanted to. It sounds too much like a Ford.
- Toutouxc 2y agoAmong EV enthusiasts, M3 is absolutely a Tesla Model 3. I know what a BMW M3 is (there was a time when I really wanted one), and I understand how much of a petrolhead icon the car is, I just don't care anymore.
- mulmen 2y agoIt’s less about your automotive subculture and more about clear communication.
- Vaslo 2y agoI doubt you did. You just don’t like Musk, and now you are larping as a Tesla buyer to make people think there is some big group that are going to punish Elon for not matching their views. Outside far leftists, people are still buying and enjoying Teslas. The difficulties in Europe aren’t related to Elon’s politics, you just wish they were.