6 ms·

At one of my previous companies, I recall suggesting to my CEO that we open some job postings "just in case" the right person comes along. He candidly noted tha

At one of my previous companies, I recall suggesting to my CEO that we open some job postings "just in case" the right person comes along. He candidly noted that we already have open job postings, and gave me access to the email they all went to. I saw over 3,000 applications made over the last 2-3 years. Tailored resumes. Cover letters. This wasn't some LinkedIn "quick apply", these were direct "Fill out the form" on our website. Not a single one of these applications got read.

f1shy 2y ago
This is making that company not look very good, is it?!
- grajaganDev 2y ago
  It is not making that company look very good. Enticing job seekers to waste their very precious time is not ethical. Edit: fix double negative.
  - b112 2y ago
    Just an FYI.. the double negative means you said it makes the company look good. (I don't think you intended that)
    - grajaganDev 2y ago
      Thank you - fixed it.
- duxup 2y ago
  Doesn't hurt them either I don't think. Nobody knows. It sucks because the whole job hunting system is borked.
  - chgs 2y ago
    If 500 people apply for a fake job and don’t get to an interview or personal response stage, then when they need a real job filling they’ve already wiped out a lot of applicants who won’t bother applying next time.
    - duxup 2y ago
      I doubt that's how it works out. Last time I was looking I applied so many places I can't remember most of them.
      - chgs 2y ago
        Presumably you’re not putting much effort then?
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > Doesn't hurt them either I don't think. Well those are 3000 resumes that won't be resubmitted when you actually want to hire. Many of those resumes will belong to people who since found work. Weeding through that would be a nightmare, so you'd have to toss it and write it off as a loss. Or you could just post jobs when you're actually interested in hiring and turn it off when you have enough applications to process. Super interested candidates can always cold email.
    - duxup 2y ago
      They don't care about those 3k and they could reach out. And maybe next round they do apply again. I sure don't remember when I last was applying who I applied for except some big names that ... yeah I'd submit it again if I was looking. I don't like the system, but I don't think they're hurt by it.
- chgs 2y ago
  Awful company. They could post “here are our standard job roles, we aren’t actively hiring but if you’re the perfect match please tell us why”, which warns the prospective applicant.
- fullshark 2y ago
  What do you mean? They have open roles so they must be growing? Seems like a good investment.
daseiner1 2y ago
Unless I have an “in” and can directly send/hand a cover letter to the opening’s hiring manager, I can’t imagine ever writing a cover letter again.
- jjice 2y ago
  When I was in uni, I found that just having a boring cover letter drastically increased the odds of an interview (for internships and post grad work). I bet a lot of places just have a filter that adds you as a higher priority purely on the existence of a cover letter. I've never read a cover letter that I found valuable for hiring anyone, though. And I'm sure mine were never of any actual value either.
  - daseiner1 2y ago
    I like that insight and should I ever be back in the kafkaesque nightmare of blind online job applications, I will take your advice. As you point out, barring typographical mistakes a cover letter being too generic isn’t likely to result in a rejection, but not “checking the box” very well might. cheers
    - sctb 2y ago
      May you never have to write one again, but if you do, it might be helpful to think of the cover letter as a reflective writing exercise. You might be able to gauge your level of interest in a particular role by how easy it is to write about, for example. Or it could just be some practice at communicating your strengths and abilities (this would definitely apply to me). IMO it's too disheartening to put effort into such personal writing without the awareness of some kind of direct value or benefit, since chances are it's going straight into the void.
      - daseiner1 2y ago
        Nicely put.
      - snozolli 2y ago
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> This wasn't some LinkedIn "quick apply", these were direct "Fill out the form" on our website. Not a single one of these applications got read. Surely this would basically immediately backfire as people would presume a rejection and not apply when you actually wanted to hire. Why would you do this?
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  It's so common place that few are going to remember they applied to a specific company years ago to begin with.
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    With BS postings, low response rates, and the effect of having to apply to many jobs at once, how else can applicants manage their many applications but write things down? The last time I did ran the job search, I needed a spreadsheet to keep track of things. When a recruiter reaches out to me, I'm going to see if their company is in there, and what my notes say about my last experience with them.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      If I'm anything like the trend, I just move on. If a posting comes up and it's been more than a few weeks I apply anyway. All such a spreadsheet would show for 90% of my apps is "applied, never got a response". In both good and bad markets. If anything I'd only remember postings I actually interviewed and was rejected for. Which is sadly a small enough number to keep in my head.
      - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
        I completely understand why you would behave this way, but I would absolutely not apply to the same place. I've never hired someone I've seen twice. I'm sure it could theoretically happen (hell, it's likely to happen for a certain pair of personality and company) but the first rejection is generally a precedent for the second.
vlod 2y ago
I remember a post here where some recruitment manager (at a company) said "Always write a cover letter, which is not generated by AI, otherwise you're an automatically trashed". I rolled my eyes. Although this might be sound advice, it's not the reality of a lot of people looking for work. Yes, they might do this for the few months, but after what 6 months+ of no or canned responses (even though you have ALL the skills they want) it gets tiresome and you just say F-it, copy-paste a canned cover letter.
- bluGill 2y ago
  You can't even be sure a cover letter is read. Sometimes they are, sometimes they are skipped. When I have 100 applicants I don't have time to read cover letters, I'm looking for the first bullet that suggests you can do the job otherwise I'm trashing your application (The goal is to get down to 10-20 resumes that I then spend a minute on to see if you go into the interview or not pile). I'm only going to read that cover letter if something suggests you despite lack of the experience I'm looking for you might have a different background and so be worth hiring anyway. Remember I have lots of more interesting things to do than read your application. When we are hiring (like many we are not today) I take time to do the process, but I really want to be doing the more interesting work.

f1shy 2y ago

This is making that company not look very good, is it?!

grajaganDev 2y ago
It is not making that company look very good. Enticing job seekers to waste their very precious time is not ethical. Edit: fix double negative.
- b112 2y ago
  Just an FYI.. the double negative means you said it makes the company look good. (I don't think you intended that)
  - grajaganDev 2y ago
    Thank you - fixed it.
duxup 2y ago
Doesn't hurt them either I don't think. Nobody knows. It sucks because the whole job hunting system is borked.
- chgs 2y ago
  If 500 people apply for a fake job and don’t get to an interview or personal response stage, then when they need a real job filling they’ve already wiped out a lot of applicants who won’t bother applying next time.
  - duxup 2y ago
    I doubt that's how it works out. Last time I was looking I applied so many places I can't remember most of them.
    - chgs 2y ago
      Presumably you’re not putting much effort then?
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  > Doesn't hurt them either I don't think. Well those are 3000 resumes that won't be resubmitted when you actually want to hire. Many of those resumes will belong to people who since found work. Weeding through that would be a nightmare, so you'd have to toss it and write it off as a loss. Or you could just post jobs when you're actually interested in hiring and turn it off when you have enough applications to process. Super interested candidates can always cold email.
  - duxup 2y ago
    They don't care about those 3k and they could reach out. And maybe next round they do apply again. I sure don't remember when I last was applying who I applied for except some big names that ... yeah I'd submit it again if I was looking. I don't like the system, but I don't think they're hurt by it.
chgs 2y ago
Awful company. They could post “here are our standard job roles, we aren’t actively hiring but if you’re the perfect match please tell us why”, which warns the prospective applicant.
fullshark 2y ago
What do you mean? They have open roles so they must be growing? Seems like a good investment.

daseiner1 2y ago

Unless I have an “in” and can directly send/hand a cover letter to the opening’s hiring manager, I can’t imagine ever writing a cover letter again.

jjice 2y ago
When I was in uni, I found that just having a boring cover letter drastically increased the odds of an interview (for internships and post grad work). I bet a lot of places just have a filter that adds you as a higher priority purely on the existence of a cover letter. I've never read a cover letter that I found valuable for hiring anyone, though. And I'm sure mine were never of any actual value either.
- daseiner1 2y ago
  I like that insight and should I ever be back in the kafkaesque nightmare of blind online job applications, I will take your advice. As you point out, barring typographical mistakes a cover letter being too generic isn’t likely to result in a rejection, but not “checking the box” very well might. cheers
  - sctb 2y ago
    May you never have to write one again, but if you do, it might be helpful to think of the cover letter as a reflective writing exercise. You might be able to gauge your level of interest in a particular role by how easy it is to write about, for example. Or it could just be some practice at communicating your strengths and abilities (this would definitely apply to me). IMO it's too disheartening to put effort into such personal writing without the awareness of some kind of direct value or benefit, since chances are it's going straight into the void.
    - daseiner1 2y ago
      Nicely put.
    - snozolli 2y ago

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> This wasn't some LinkedIn "quick apply", these were direct "Fill out the form" on our website. Not a single one of these applications got read. Surely this would basically immediately backfire as people would presume a rejection and not apply when you actually wanted to hire. Why would you do this?

johnnyanmac 2y ago
It's so common place that few are going to remember they applied to a specific company years ago to begin with.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  With BS postings, low response rates, and the effect of having to apply to many jobs at once, how else can applicants manage their many applications but write things down? The last time I did ran the job search, I needed a spreadsheet to keep track of things. When a recruiter reaches out to me, I'm going to see if their company is in there, and what my notes say about my last experience with them.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    If I'm anything like the trend, I just move on. If a posting comes up and it's been more than a few weeks I apply anyway. All such a spreadsheet would show for 90% of my apps is "applied, never got a response". In both good and bad markets. If anything I'd only remember postings I actually interviewed and was rejected for. Which is sadly a small enough number to keep in my head.
    - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
      I completely understand why you would behave this way, but I would absolutely not apply to the same place. I've never hired someone I've seen twice. I'm sure it could theoretically happen (hell, it's likely to happen for a certain pair of personality and company) but the first rejection is generally a precedent for the second.

vlod 2y ago

I remember a post here where some recruitment manager (at a company) said "Always write a cover letter, which is not generated by AI, otherwise you're an automatically trashed". I rolled my eyes. Although this might be sound advice, it's not the reality of a lot of people looking for work. Yes, they might do this for the few months, but after what 6 months+ of no or canned responses (even though you have ALL the skills they want) it gets tiresome and you just say F-it, copy-paste a canned cover letter.

bluGill 2y ago
You can't even be sure a cover letter is read. Sometimes they are, sometimes they are skipped. When I have 100 applicants I don't have time to read cover letters, I'm looking for the first bullet that suggests you can do the job otherwise I'm trashing your application (The goal is to get down to 10-20 resumes that I then spend a minute on to see if you go into the interview or not pile). I'm only going to read that cover letter if something suggests you despite lack of the experience I'm looking for you might have a different background and so be worth hiring anyway. Remember I have lots of more interesting things to do than read your application. When we are hiring (like many we are not today) I take time to do the process, but I really want to be doing the more interesting work.