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https://fortune.com/2025/01/13/tesla-beats-audi-global-car-sales/ https://fortune.com/2025/01/13/tesla-beats-audi-global-car-s...

ddalex 2y ago
"beats" in the sense that it dropped less, not that it grew more. Also this article is about EU, not Global
sofixa 2y ago
Audi is a single, premium, brand of one of the biggest automotive groups out there. It seems odd to single them out in particular and position Tesla outselling them, how is it relevant for anything? I bet they're outselling Dacia too, so what?
- petre 2y ago
  The A4 is priced on parity with model 3, the Q5 on parity with model Y, so I guess that might be a hint. Why buy a dirty diesel when you can buy a Tesla for tfe same amount?
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    But clearly people _aren't_ doing that, because Tesla sales are falling. Those lost Audi sales are presumably largely going either to another VW AG brand, or to another manufacturer entirely.
    - petre 2y ago
      Largely yes, although VW AG has problems of its own with the VW with falling profits. Their cheaper brands and also Cupra are doing okay. Toyota along with the other Japanese brands, BMW and Volvo are last years' winners. I think people in Europe are mostly buying hybrids. "Volkswagen and Toyota were again the best-selling car brands but BMW moved into third place followed by Skoda. Volvo and Suzuki increased sales sharply while Ford and Tesla struggled." https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2024-half-year-europe-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2024-half-year-euro...
croes 2y ago
Beating a struggling manufacturer is useless. Investors want sold-more numbers not sold-more-than numbers.
vman81 2y ago
Just dropping a link like that about a car manufacturer doing even worse without any argument attached just comes across as coping or soviet style whataboutism. They just edged out Honda - a company with 4% of their market cap. Not really a slam dunk.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Also, Audi isn't even _really_ a car manufacturer; it's one of VW's 11 or so brands.
Bengalilol 2y ago
FYI Volkswagen PE ratio 3.47 Tesla PE ratio 117.65 Back in 2000, Cisco had a PE ratio of 196.2 It has now been 25 years and Cisco's stock price is almost back at its 2000 price (current PE ratio is 25.22). Nowadays, Alphabet (Google) has a PE ratio of 25.72. The sales of Tesla are not that great given the past 5 years and the investors are paying 117 times the future earnings. What could go wrong?
- airstrike 2y ago
  I don't think those are forward P/E multiples, so they really don't mean anything.
  - Bengalilol 2y ago
    I took the forward PE ratio. The current PE ratio is at 110.
    - airstrike 2y ago
      Forward PE multiples can't be lower than trailing multiples unless you believe earnings will decrease next year. Interestingly, going off of Yahoo Finance, EPS did decrease in 2024, but I don't know their methodology. You'd have to scrub these numbers to make sure they are meaningful and I no longer have access to Bloomberg / FactSet / Capital IQ to do that... and I'm too lazy to pull up research reports and scrub manually ;-)
      - Bengalilol 2y ago
        I have the same lack of Bloomberg access ^^ Anyways, forward PE ratios are generally lower right now (Alphabet for example has a forward PE of 22, current is at 25). There may be a lot of explanations regarding this situation, but globally it either implies worse macro economic conditions, or a decrease in revenues and/or profits, some high one-shot costs/loss to take into account (legal or structural), or most generally it can also reveal that current stock price is too high and some correction will happen. Given the current situation, I bet it says that stock is overpriced/valued.
rsynnott 2y ago
I mean, outselling one of VW AG's 11 car brands... okay? I'm not sure you can take much information from _that_, one way or another.

ddalex 2y ago

"beats" in the sense that it dropped less, not that it grew more. Also this article is about EU, not Global

sofixa 2y ago

Audi is a single, premium, brand of one of the biggest automotive groups out there. It seems odd to single them out in particular and position Tesla outselling them, how is it relevant for anything? I bet they're outselling Dacia too, so what?

petre 2y ago
The A4 is priced on parity with model 3, the Q5 on parity with model Y, so I guess that might be a hint. Why buy a dirty diesel when you can buy a Tesla for tfe same amount?
- rsynnott 2y ago
  But clearly people _aren't_ doing that, because Tesla sales are falling. Those lost Audi sales are presumably largely going either to another VW AG brand, or to another manufacturer entirely.
  - petre 2y ago
    Largely yes, although VW AG has problems of its own with the VW with falling profits. Their cheaper brands and also Cupra are doing okay. Toyota along with the other Japanese brands, BMW and Volvo are last years' winners. I think people in Europe are mostly buying hybrids. "Volkswagen and Toyota were again the best-selling car brands but BMW moved into third place followed by Skoda. Volvo and Suzuki increased sales sharply while Ford and Tesla struggled." https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2024-half-year-europe-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2024-half-year-euro...

croes 2y ago

Beating a struggling manufacturer is useless. Investors want sold-more numbers not sold-more-than numbers.

vman81 2y ago

Just dropping a link like that about a car manufacturer doing even worse without any argument attached just comes across as coping or soviet style whataboutism. They just edged out Honda - a company with 4% of their market cap. Not really a slam dunk.

rsynnott 2y ago
Also, Audi isn't even _really_ a car manufacturer; it's one of VW's 11 or so brands.

Bengalilol 2y ago

FYI Volkswagen PE ratio 3.47 Tesla PE ratio 117.65 Back in 2000, Cisco had a PE ratio of 196.2 It has now been 25 years and Cisco's stock price is almost back at its 2000 price (current PE ratio is 25.22). Nowadays, Alphabet (Google) has a PE ratio of 25.72. The sales of Tesla are not that great given the past 5 years and the investors are paying 117 times the future earnings. What could go wrong?

airstrike 2y ago
I don't think those are forward P/E multiples, so they really don't mean anything.
- Bengalilol 2y ago
  I took the forward PE ratio. The current PE ratio is at 110.
  - airstrike 2y ago
    Forward PE multiples can't be lower than trailing multiples unless you believe earnings will decrease next year. Interestingly, going off of Yahoo Finance, EPS did decrease in 2024, but I don't know their methodology. You'd have to scrub these numbers to make sure they are meaningful and I no longer have access to Bloomberg / FactSet / Capital IQ to do that... and I'm too lazy to pull up research reports and scrub manually ;-)
    - Bengalilol 2y ago
      I have the same lack of Bloomberg access ^^ Anyways, forward PE ratios are generally lower right now (Alphabet for example has a forward PE of 22, current is at 25). There may be a lot of explanations regarding this situation, but globally it either implies worse macro economic conditions, or a decrease in revenues and/or profits, some high one-shot costs/loss to take into account (legal or structural), or most generally it can also reveal that current stock price is too high and some correction will happen. Given the current situation, I bet it says that stock is overpriced/valued.

rsynnott 2y ago

I mean, outselling one of VW AG's 11 car brands... okay? I'm not sure you can take much information from _that_, one way or another.