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For the same reason that capitalism also developed by means of violent atrocities, genocide and murder. And it also would do all this again whenever this is nee

For the same reason that capitalism also developed by means of violent atrocities, genocide and murder. And it also would do all this again whenever this is needed to maintain itself, so any competing system would need to defend itself in acts that would be portrayed as authoritarian and violent in capitalist societies, even if these societies handwave and find excuses for the same acts if done in capitalism. This is part of the power struggle inherent to the economical system.

_yb2s 2y ago
I completely disagree- Marxism frames the situation that way, but it is completely mistaken about the reason for the awful acts it is trying to prevent, and therefore takes actions that aren't helpful. This battle isn't between capitalism vs marxism, but two sides actually mostly independent and orthogonal to that. Marx saw a really real and awful injustice in how workers were treated during the industrial revolution, but he fundamentally misdiagnosed and misunderstood the problem. People were being awful and exploiting others for their own gain under inhumane conditions, because they simply were awful people that dehumanized others and only cared about themselves- and they were in a cultural and legal framework that encouraged and allowed that sort of behavior. It had absolutely nothing to do with capitalism, owning property, or owning a business, but more to do with an ancient medieval ethics that had been around long before capitalism, suddenly being applied with more powerful tools and systems. As an aside, I think Pirsig's "Metaphysics of Quality" gets directly at what the real problem is that leads to the atrocities Marx was concerned about. People that are exploiting others in that way- and the people that tolerate/allow it- aren't capitalists per say, but are lacking a sense of what Pirsig calls Quality. Since communism side-steps the real issue, it creates a new framework where the same type of awful people have even more power to abuse, exploit, and dehumanize others - even while feeling righteous about it, rather than at least a bit guilty like one would hope they would feel. Our actual current modern society has more correctly diagnosed and solved the problem with new ethical, cultural, and legal norms about how one can and should treat other people, and the natural environment... while still keeping it perfectly legal to start a business, own property, etc. - those are simply amoral activities that have nothing to do with the atrocities Marx was trying to prevent. Plenty of people start and run a business, e.g. with the intention of being socially and environmentally responsible, and doing something helpful and useful with their lives by employing people and solving useful problems- and succeed at it.

_yb2s 2y ago

I completely disagree- Marxism frames the situation that way, but it is completely mistaken about the reason for the awful acts it is trying to prevent, and therefore takes actions that aren't helpful. This battle isn't between capitalism vs marxism, but two sides actually mostly independent and orthogonal to that. Marx saw a really real and awful injustice in how workers were treated during the industrial revolution, but he fundamentally misdiagnosed and misunderstood the problem. People were being awful and exploiting others for their own gain under inhumane conditions, because they simply were awful people that dehumanized others and only cared about themselves- and they were in a cultural and legal framework that encouraged and allowed that sort of behavior. It had absolutely nothing to do with capitalism, owning property, or owning a business, but more to do with an ancient medieval ethics that had been around long before capitalism, suddenly being applied with more powerful tools and systems. As an aside, I think Pirsig's "Metaphysics of Quality" gets directly at what the real problem is that leads to the atrocities Marx was concerned about. People that are exploiting others in that way- and the people that tolerate/allow it- aren't capitalists per say, but are lacking a sense of what Pirsig calls Quality. Since communism side-steps the real issue, it creates a new framework where the same type of awful people have even more power to abuse, exploit, and dehumanize others - even while feeling righteous about it, rather than at least a bit guilty like one would hope they would feel. Our actual current modern society has more correctly diagnosed and solved the problem with new ethical, cultural, and legal norms about how one can and should treat other people, and the natural environment... while still keeping it perfectly legal to start a business, own property, etc. - those are simply amoral activities that have nothing to do with the atrocities Marx was trying to prevent. Plenty of people start and run a business, e.g. with the intention of being socially and environmentally responsible, and doing something helpful and useful with their lives by employing people and solving useful problems- and succeed at it.