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PostgreSQL is the Database Management System of the Year 2024
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ExoticPearTree 2y agoI wish someone that has resources to invest into making the replication in PostgreSQL seamless, easy to configure and easy to change masters without anything like pgbounce and friends. Otherwise, PostgreSQL is fantastic.
- _joel 2y agoIsn't citus quite good at that? https://www.citusdata.com/ https://www.citusdata.com/
- remram 2y agoI think Citus only does sharding not replication. You can use it together with Patroni though.
- himinlomax 2y agoPatroni is pretty good at this.
- eatonphil 2y agoCan patroni replicate across mixed versions of Postgres? (i.e. can it do logical replication? [and handle DDL replication?]) I thought patroni only did physical replication (only replicates across the same version of Postgres). But maybe I'm mistaken.
- joduplessis 2y agoSomething pg native would be fantastic.
- homebrewer 2y agoI'm hoping for seamless upgrades at some point, like MySQL does it — you install the next major version and restart the daemon. It's completely unnecessary for major operators, but is a life-saver for small businesses, websites that don't need 99.99999% of uptime (i.e. almost all of them), in development, etc.
- gog 2y agoHow do updates work with postgres?
- ExoticPearTree 2y agoYou do a backup on the old version and a restore on the new one. From what I understood, sometimes the way data is written to disk differently between versions and they're not compatible. I guess due to optimizations or changes in the storage engine?
- pritambaral 2y agoWell, three ways: 1. Dump a backup to disk, then restore from dump on new version; 2. Stop the old version, then run `pg_upgrade --link` on the data of the old version which should create a new data directory using hardlinks, then start the new version using the new data directory. This is rather quick; or 3. Use Logical Replication to stand up the new version. This has ... a few caveats.
- qaq 2y agoProblem is primary devs of Postgres are consulting shops that make money in this space so making it seamless would affect their revenue
- throw0101c 2y agoE.g., * https://www.enterprisedb.com/docs/pgd/4/bdr/ https://www.enterprisedb.com/docs/pgd/4/bdr/
- eatonphil 2y agoI work on PGD but I'm pretty sure we actively support open-source options for HA: https://github.com/EnterpriseDB/repmgr https://github.com/EnterpriseDB/repmgr
- throw0101c 2y agoRepmgr is handy, but it is not a replication system per se, but rather makes managing a bunch of moving other parts easier. Personally I'd like BDR to be in the main tree, or something else, equivalent to Galera: * https://galeracluster.com https://galeracluster.com It's not perfect [1], but it'll get you a good way for many use cases. [1] https://aphyr.com/posts/327-jepsen-mariadb-galera-cluster https://aphyr.com/posts/327-jepsen-mariadb-galera-cluster
- bblb 2y agoI would say Pgpool-II is still the best we got. This video covers pretty much all the practical stuff. I timestamped the parts in a comment. PgPool II Performance and best practices https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMnVS0slgU0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMnVS0slgU0
- paulryanrogers 2y agoOh man, this takes me back to 2005 when I first moved to Pg and needed replication. Its replication is statement based, i.e. sends each DML query to all nodes. That means every write query must be deterministic. That wasn't always obvious. Though it did work for us until we moved to Slony then block level WAL replication. Thankfully we have logical replication today, even if it's still a bit more painful than MySQL.
- jamesfinlayson 2y ago> Slony Gosh, haven't heard that in years. I remember a company I used to work for used it on their old system but the new system didn't use it for whatever reason.
- rickette 2y agoOut of the box HA would make it complete. Apart from patroni, anyone experience with https://github.com/hapostgres/pg_auto_failover https://github.com/hapostgres/pg_auto_failover?
- sreekanth850 2y agoThis is the exact reason why we went with MySQL. Many asked why, A small team with limited resources. You cannot go to production without HA, and many time cloud may not be a solution. For small use cases MySQL Innodb Cluster is a simple elegant solution to setup.
- cpursley 2y agoTurning on replication in neon.tech is literally just a switch. And it plays well with a CDC library of mine: https://github.com/cpursley/walex https://github.com/cpursley/walex
- sgarland 2y agoPgbouncer is a connection pooler; it has nothing to do with replication. That said, it’s not that hard to set up replication [0]. Properly tuning the various parameters, monitoring, and being able to fix issues is another story. RDBMS is hard. MySQL is IMO the easiest to maintain up to a certain point, but it can still bite you in surprising ways. Postgres appears to be as easy on the surface, buoyed by a million blog posts about it, but as your dataset grows, so does the maintenance burden. Worse, if you don’t know what you should be doing, it just eventually blows up (txid wraparound from vacuum failures probably being the most common). [0]: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/runtime-config-replication.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/runtime-config-repli...
- orthoxerox 2y ago> txid wraparound from vacuum failures probably being the most common Hopefully OrioleDB can upstream all the necessary changes soon. For those who don't know, it's a storage engine for Postgres that uses undo logs instead of vacuuming old records.
- oliverrice 2y agoOrioleDB maintains a very small set of Postgres patches that are targeted for upstream. The storage engine that mitigates the need for vacuuming [1] is implemented in a standard Postgres extension, so that will still need to be installed by the Postgres host in order to take advantage of it. But yeah, looking forward to that day too! [1] https://www.orioledb.com/blog/no-more-vacuum-in-postgresql https://www.orioledb.com/blog/no-more-vacuum-in-postgresql
- ExoticPearTree 2y agoYes, you are right, but I was thinking of the ease of having a high-availability setup and pgbouncer was the first thing that came to mind. And yes, I read the documentation and it is still cumbersome to have an HA setup that is easy to maintain. This is what I mean and hope it is clearer now.
- cedws 2y agoI agree, Postgres is great but I think it's just a little crusty for cloud environments. Clustering should be built in and easy to configure.
- jskrablin 2y agoTake a look at https://github.com/hapostgres/pg_auto_failover https://github.com/hapostgres/pg_auto_failover it's quite simple to use and manage. You can use libpq support for target_session_attrs (been there since Pg 10 - https://paquier.xyz/postgresql-2/postgres-10-libpq-read-write/ https://paquier.xyz/postgresql-2/postgres-10-libpq-read-writ... ) so you don't need active loadbalancer in front of your Pg cluster. You can however create your own health/status check service on top of pg_autoctl show state and use HAProxy if required. I don't think there's something easier to setup and manage than pg_auto_failover, Patroni always appeared very complicated to me.
- spprashant 2y agoWhat we really need is a de-facto open source tool to manage logical replication seamlessly. The devs have built all the pieces, and as of v17 there are very few limitations. But I am constantly tripping over the fact that I cannot observe how the replication is progressing, and a good way to mitigate failures.
- nttdocomo 2y agoThe methodology and general concept of this is a bit silly IMO, but that being said I've never regretted going with postgres whenever I choose it.
- pbronez 2y agoMethodology details available here [0]. They measure popularity by collecting at several flavors of online mentions, then normalizing and averaging them. Specific sources include: - Number of mentions of the system on websites, measured as number of results in search engines queries. […] - General interest in the system [via] Google Trends. - Frequency of technical discussions about the system [on] Stack Overflow and DBA Stack Exchange. - Number of job offers, in which the system is mentioned [on] Indeed and Simply Hired. - Number of profiles [mentioning] the system [on] LinkedIn. - Relevance in social networks [by counting] Twitter (X) tweets, in which the system is mentioned. Seems like a reasonable approach to me. They should add more social networks now that Twitter/X is hemorrhaging marketshare. Mastodon, Bluesky and Threads should be included. Honestly I see that all over… so many sites have Twitter integrations that haven’t even been update to X yet. Gonna take a while for the broader ecosystem to shift. [0] https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition
- shin_lao 2y agoDB Engine rankings are not very reliable and are constantly gamed, they shouldn't be used for anything serious.
- m_st 2y agoI so badly wish we could change a big Windows business application to use PostgreSQL rather than Microsoft SQL Server just because of the licensing costs. SQL Server is a fantastic product, but restricted to 128GB RAM and a few CPU cores or you have to start paying so much, that not even our biggest customers can justify it. Migration isn't easy, as this venerable application uses ADO.NET Datasets with TableAdapters and plenty of stored procedures. The syntax is almost compatible though. But not enough unfortunately. For our next product, we're sure to bet on PostgreSQL instead.
- kylecordes 2y agoYes, this is such a big challenge for commercial database products. PG is so great that it often makes the most sense to reallocate the money to more CPU/RAM/SSD, rather than licenses.
- pmarreck 2y agoLLM's might be able to translate the stored procedure code without too much difficulty, and assuming you have test coverage. Might also do a good job of translating DDL code such as index definitions etc. I too was impressed with SQL Server last time I used it (big note: SQL Server is one of the few commercial DB's that does real nested transactions; PG does not), but I get it.
- werdnapk 2y agoWhat's a real nested transaction? What's postgresql missing? https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/subxacts.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/subxacts.html
- zild3d 2y agoConfused why their ranking has postgres at 4 then? https://db-engines.com/en/ranking https://db-engines.com/en/ranking
- pseudocomposer 2y agoFrom that site’s own info page: “The DB-Engines Ranking does not measure the number of installations of the systems, or their use within IT systems.” Their methodology, even as stated, seems to be pretty flawed.
- BrentOzar 2y agoBecause it's more about trends than current rankings.
- pbronez 2y agoThey specifically look at the absolute change from the score last January. Biggest delta = DB of the year. From the article: “We calculate the DBMS of the year by subtracting the January 2024 from the January 2025 scores. We use the difference between each DBMS’s score, rather than a percentage growth, which would favor systems with lower popularity at the beginning of the year. The DMBS of the year is an illustration of how much each system increased in popularity during the year”
- jasoncartwright 2y agoAfter coming back to coding after ~10-15 years away, databases are IMHO the most improved element of the dev/devops experience. Managed Postgres on Google Cloud is a fantastic product (I'm sure other cloud's offerings are also similarly good). Backups, replication, point-in-time recovery, managed updates, plus quick & easy system & query insight tooling. All for less than £1/day.
- cpursley 2y agoIf you think those are nice, check out neon.tech - set up was faster than any of the big cloud providers.
- jasoncartwright 2y agoUnfortunately they don't have anything in a region where my code runs. Interesting though!
- nikita 2y ago(neon ceo). What region are you in?
- jasoncartwright 2y agoHi! London.
- nikita 2y agoOh, that's coming very very soon! London and San Paolo. Def in Q1.
- eerikkivistik 2y agoWhile I do love Postgres and use it daily on AWS and Google Cloud, I will add that the managed Postgres on Google Cloud is a mess in some areas. For example they use some EOL extensions outdated for 10+ years (a specific example is GEOS) and refuse to update it and give no control for you to upgrade it either.
- cpursley 2y agoTurns out Postgres Is Enough: https://gist.github.com/cpursley/c8fb81fe8a7e5df038158bdfe0f06dbb https://gist.github.com/cpursley/c8fb81fe8a7e5df038158bdfe0f... (Gist contains a bunch of Postgres ecosystems things, if anything is missing, please let me know)
- pelagicAustral 2y agoReplication with Bucardo
- emmanueloga_ 2y agoKind of, with caveats. For one "extensions can interfere with each other and cause incorrect behavior" [1], and the practicallity of implementations varies. Say, Cypher queries using AGE can be order of magnitude slower than using a dedicated graph DB [2]. Yes, you can drive a Ford Falcon coast-to-coast, but how much gas are you going to spend? Postgres is a solid database but has roots in the 80s. Optimizing for modern hardware would reduce hosting costs and improve efficiency. [3] This isn’t criticism of Postgres as a database but of the idea that it’s inherently sufficient for all use cases. -- 1: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pavlo/blog/2025/01/2024-databases-retrospective.html#:~:text=extensions%20can%20interfere%20with%20each%20other%20and%20cause%20incorrect%20behavior https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pavlo/blog/2025/01/2024-databases-re... 2: https://blog.kuzudb.com/post/what-every-gdbms-should-do-and-vision/ https://blog.kuzudb.com/post/what-every-gdbms-should-do-and-... 3: https://cedardb.com/blog/ode_to_postgres/#why-is-everyone-still-talking-about-postgresql https://cedardb.com/blog/ode_to_postgres/#why-is-everyone-st...
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y agoOf course there are better time series than Timescale. Better graph databases than AGE. Better GIS databases than PostGIS. The point made when it comes to Postgres is 9 times out of 10 you don’t need better thing. And unless you have that compelling optimization already ready to go with receipts to back it up, probably you should pick Postgres
- caseyohara 2y ago> Yes, you can drive a Ford Falcon coast-to-coast, but how much gas are you going to spend? Postgres is a solid database but has roots in the 80s. Optimizing for modern hardware would reduce hosting costs and improve efficiency. This is disingenuous. If you’re comparing Postgres to CedarDB, a more apt analogy would be Postgres is a late model Ford F-150. A utility vehicle with roots in the 80s but continuously improved since then. Not the most efficient vehicle or the fastest, but has lots of utility and great reliability. People have collectively driven F-150s for billions of miles. And CedarDB is a concept car that some guy built in his garage. It might be efficient but it certainly isn’t proven to be reliable like Postgres is. If I’m taking a coast-to-coast trip, I’m driving the F-150. I might not get there quickly or efficiently, but I’m sure I’ll get there. And if my F-150 breaks down, there are thousands of mechanics between the coasts that can help me get back on the road. If I take the CedarDB concept car, when it breaks down there are only one or two people that can help me, and they are thousands of miles away.
- mhartz 2y agoObviously there's some level of subjectiveness here, but how many years could they realistically have gotten his award?
- pjmlp 2y agoI wonder how they came to this conclusion given that the ranking page shows otherwise, with Oracle first, having a score of 1258.76 over PostreSQL at 4th place having a score of 663.41. https://db-engines.com/en/ranking https://db-engines.com/en/ranking
- paxys 2y ago> We calculate the DBMS of the year by subtracting the January 2024 from the January 2025 scores. Although by that measure Snowflake should be #1 not Postgres, so who knows. Seems like they are just subjectively picking what is more internet popular.
- pella 2y agosee -> Methodology ( https://db-engines.com/en/blog_post/109 https://db-engines.com/en/blog_post/109 ) "Methodology We calculate the DBMS of the year by subtracting the January 2024 from the January 2025 scores. We use the difference between each DBMS’s score, rather than a percentage growth, which would favor systems with lower popularity at the beginning of the year. The DMBS of the year is an illustration of how much each system increased in popularity during the year. You can read more about our exact methodology here ( https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition ), but in short we are ranking popularity of DBMS based on how much people are discussing and communicating about each system, including job offers, professional profile entries and citations on the web. job offers, professional profile entries and citations on the web. "
- stonemetal12 2y agoThe listed diff from Jan 2024 puts Snowflake at almost double Pg, and third place MSSQL server is next to last place. Even if they meant Azure when they said MS in third, it is still in negative territory while there are more than 20 dbs with positive ratings. Postgresql +15 Snowflake +28 MSSQL -78 So DB of the year seems to be based on feels rather than their numbers.
- giovanni_or2 2y agoDeserved, Postgres is enough for 95% of normal use cases
- paxys 2y agoFrom their methodology page (https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition https://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition), it seems they use: - Number of search results for each DB's name - Google Trends - Mentions in Stack Overflow etc. - Mentions in Tweets - Mentions in people's LinkedIn profile Probably gives a vague idea of popularity of the system, but the measure is otherwise pretty useless.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- xiphias2 2y agoIt's a bit strange that SQLite went up only 1 place on the ranking (to the 10th). There's a lot of new articles of how to improve its performance and I love that I don't have to care about the n+1 problem so much. It is now the default production database for Rails for a good reason.
- jabwd 2y agoSQLite performance is kinda nutty. My design of the DB at the time was probably poor (but I was 15 so cut me some slack :D) but I made an app that had to run on iPod Touches at the time, so we could use the accelerometer for physics class in school. initially the performance was too poor, but after a bunch of reading and some changes in how I was using SQLite I got it to easily do more than 100k rows per second of insertions (the db wasn't very wide). On an old embedded device, mind you. Didn't need that much, but wowza! was my expression at the time. I've had a love for it in my heart every since.
- cpursley 2y agoDon't get me started on Rails and all the anti-patterns that Active Record introduces...
- xiphias2 2y agoYou don't have to. I believe RoR has good and bad sides, but the multi-threaded debugging stories of _why_ there were timeout problems when the interpreter got a global interpreter lock and how SQLite driver got fixed translates to lots of other programming languages. Just saying that you run network I/O and blaming the kernel / network latency for all the delays in other SQL drivers is easy, but with SSDs getting so much lower latency than HDDs, one has to seriously consider throwing out network based databases for lots of programming tasks.
- INTPenis 2y agoI don't know anything about db-engines.com but I have literally been hearing nothing but good things in regards to postgres for 20 years now. My very first job the boss told me a story of how they helped a client who was throwing hardware at their mysql DB by migrating them to postgres. Ever since I've preferred postgres. Even though I couldn't tell you on a technical level what exactly makes it better.
- AsianOtter 2y agoI was surprised to see such a big jump in ClickHouse (up 7 places). Now it's higher than Spark but lower than Hive and HBase (they were trendy around the first half of 2010x).
- paulryanrogers 2y agoHow is Oracle in the top spot? Everyone I've ever talked to who used it was trying to get off it or complaining they're only on it because of regulatory capture. Also, where is ValKey?
- t14000 2y agodb-engines.com is the Website of the Year 1994