3 ms·

Employers don't engage with employees, why should it go the other way? Anecdote time: My uncle went straight from school to work for the local factory. The fa

Employers don't engage with employees, why should it go the other way? Anecdote time: My uncle went straight from school to work for the local factory. The factory gave him a low-cost loan the factory backed, he built a house with it. Paid the loan back in record time (because of the low interest). He did get laid off once and had to work in a factory one town over (same company still), but when the economy picked up he came back to the same factory. He retired from there some years ago, ever had the one employer, but they took good care of him and he returned it with loyalty to the company. --- If companies were loyal to employees in ways other than just fancy words ("we are family here"), people would be more likely to be loyal to companies. Now the only way to get a proper raise is to switch jobs. The best way to get a better salary/title at your current job is to leave to another company for a year or two or come back. New employees fresh out of school get paid same or better than people who have been there for a decade. Why would anyone work hard in those situations?

eptcyka 2y ago
Did your uncle live in a post WWII western country? The cluster of countries that saw a massive amount of economic development during the last half a century? Could it be that since western countries have largely plateaued in terms of growth and have fallen behind China that the same countries will struggle to provide the same quality of life as they once did? I am not discounting corporate greed, but I would like to point out that it is only getting harder to employ ethically, and it is only getting harder to compete as a business without optimizing for short term gains and fully exploiting any and all resources because of that. I think we have failed ourselves through misgovernance in the past 30 years to let ourselves fall behind the industrial behemoths that will not allow their own middle class to flourish, and, once they plateau, to flounder.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > I am not discounting corporate greed, but I would like to point out that it is only getting harder to employ ethically It is only getting harder to employ ethically because of corporate greed. Stock market valuations and profitablity has been very high for quite a while, but employees are treated like shit nonetheless.
  - eptcyka 2y ago
    Yes, but it is not the sole reason. It will become more difficult still as the US and EU fall behind in their industrial capacity.
- theshrike79 2y ago
  The actually rich stole from the middle and lower classes and told the lower class the middle class is the problem and the middle class that the lower classes are the problem. Middle and lower classes are fighting among each other while the actually rich get richer. And some well-off middle class people think they're "rich".
  - RestlessMind 2y ago
    It is interesting to observe the wedge issues in the US - from gay rights and abortion in 2000's to abortion and BLM in 2010's to trans issues in 2020's. These affect a tiny minority but inflame passions in a big way. At the same time, the one big issue affecting 99% people barely gets any attention - rich get richer while everyone else is leading anxious precarious lives which could be disturbed all of a sudden. Occupy Wall Street was striking that nerve of raw populism. Success of both Trump and Sanders campaigns in 2016, coupled with the complete takeover of GOP by populists (Trump/Vance), means that the moment is ripe for someone to tap into all this populist anger. I hope that person is an FDR and not another Hitler or Lenin.
    - theshrike79 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses It's still used because it works. That's why Donald promised to make groceries cheaper (bread), because that's one thing that will make _everyone_ angry. The 24 hour news cycle and social media handle the circus part, keeping people invested in stupid culture wars about "the gays", BLM, DEI and now Trans people.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > Could it be that since western countries have largely plateaued in terms of growth and have fallen behind China that the same countries will struggle to provide the same quality of life as they once did If they have plateaued in terms of growth, why would they struggle to provide the same quality of life? Also, I wouldn't say "have fallen behind China". China has seen remarkable growth on many fronts, and millions of pople have been uprooted from poverty. By most metrics the quality of life is still lower than in the US/UK/AU/NZ/EU. (No, GDP, GDP per capita, GDP growth are not quality of life).
rob74 2y ago
What's especially galling is the short time between "we are all family here, we can pull through despite a pandemic going on and teams being split up" to "we know home office worked out better than expected, but now you'd better get back to the office, or else! Why? Because we say so, err, because teamwork" to "so sorry, we have to do layoffs to improve our bottom line".

eptcyka 2y ago

Did your uncle live in a post WWII western country? The cluster of countries that saw a massive amount of economic development during the last half a century? Could it be that since western countries have largely plateaued in terms of growth and have fallen behind China that the same countries will struggle to provide the same quality of life as they once did? I am not discounting corporate greed, but I would like to point out that it is only getting harder to employ ethically, and it is only getting harder to compete as a business without optimizing for short term gains and fully exploiting any and all resources because of that. I think we have failed ourselves through misgovernance in the past 30 years to let ourselves fall behind the industrial behemoths that will not allow their own middle class to flourish, and, once they plateau, to flounder.

surgical_fire 2y ago
> I am not discounting corporate greed, but I would like to point out that it is only getting harder to employ ethically It is only getting harder to employ ethically because of corporate greed. Stock market valuations and profitablity has been very high for quite a while, but employees are treated like shit nonetheless.
- eptcyka 2y ago
  Yes, but it is not the sole reason. It will become more difficult still as the US and EU fall behind in their industrial capacity.
theshrike79 2y ago
The actually rich stole from the middle and lower classes and told the lower class the middle class is the problem and the middle class that the lower classes are the problem. Middle and lower classes are fighting among each other while the actually rich get richer. And some well-off middle class people think they're "rich".
- RestlessMind 2y ago
  It is interesting to observe the wedge issues in the US - from gay rights and abortion in 2000's to abortion and BLM in 2010's to trans issues in 2020's. These affect a tiny minority but inflame passions in a big way. At the same time, the one big issue affecting 99% people barely gets any attention - rich get richer while everyone else is leading anxious precarious lives which could be disturbed all of a sudden. Occupy Wall Street was striking that nerve of raw populism. Success of both Trump and Sanders campaigns in 2016, coupled with the complete takeover of GOP by populists (Trump/Vance), means that the moment is ripe for someone to tap into all this populist anger. I hope that person is an FDR and not another Hitler or Lenin.
  - theshrike79 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses It's still used because it works. That's why Donald promised to make groceries cheaper (bread), because that's one thing that will make _everyone_ angry. The 24 hour news cycle and social media handle the circus part, keeping people invested in stupid culture wars about "the gays", BLM, DEI and now Trans people.
sofixa 2y ago
> Could it be that since western countries have largely plateaued in terms of growth and have fallen behind China that the same countries will struggle to provide the same quality of life as they once did If they have plateaued in terms of growth, why would they struggle to provide the same quality of life? Also, I wouldn't say "have fallen behind China". China has seen remarkable growth on many fronts, and millions of pople have been uprooted from poverty. By most metrics the quality of life is still lower than in the US/UK/AU/NZ/EU. (No, GDP, GDP per capita, GDP growth are not quality of life).

rob74 2y ago

What's especially galling is the short time between "we are all family here, we can pull through despite a pandemic going on and teams being split up" to "we know home office worked out better than expected, but now you'd better get back to the office, or else! Why? Because we say so, err, because teamwork" to "so sorry, we have to do layoffs to improve our bottom line".