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Downtown only exists in the first place because roads go there. You know the old saying? All roads lead to Rome. Cities concentrate people and need a lot of res

Downtown only exists in the first place because roads go there. You know the old saying? All roads lead to Rome. Cities concentrate people and need a lot of resources to be sustainable, and roads are what bring these resources.

dymk 2y ago
You know what those roads originally had on them? Small carriages (see etymology) and foot traffic, not modern cars. It blows my mind that people think cars are necessary for modern cities when the best ones to live have very few or no cars
Ar-Curunir 2y ago
That’s just pure nonsense. Have you been to, like, any major non-American city? People just take public transit, or walk, or, live in downtown
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  This entire comment section is simultaneously hilarious and sad to read, because it's obviously a bunch of myopic Americans who have never ventured outside of America and have no clue how other cities in the world work. Honestly I try to avoid commenting in forums like this because it's so fruitless: it's just like trying to have a rational discussion about vaccines (or anything really) with a bunch of Trump followers.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    What’s funny is that I’m sure most of them know other kinds of cities exist. And they know that people somehow manage to survive and thrive there, even if they don’t know how. But this all gets ignored once you start talking about trying to emulate some of that. For too many Americans, there’s no difference between “that can’t work,” “that can’t work here,” and “we don’t do that.”
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    All large European cities have a lot of traffic, public transit notwithstanding. And in the small towns, most people have a car because public transit is not economical in sparsely populated areas.
  - signatoremo 2y ago
    Did you know that car ownership in the Netherlands has continued to rise? This is a blog post of a cycling advocate, from 2019 but still relevant - [0] Quote: In 1992, 42% of Dutch households were car-free. By 2016 this had dropped to about a quarter. Car ownership has continued to increase since then. Higher car ownership leads to higher car usage. Almost anyone who can easily afford a car has one and there aren't many people at all who choose to go without if they can afford one: Amongst people of average income, just 12% of households don't have a car and that drops further to just 6% for high income households. In other words, people choose to own a car if they can afford it, even if they cycle frequently at the same time. [0] -https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-myth-netherlands-is-great.html?m=1 https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-m...
wat10000 2y ago
Giant American roads mostly don’t bring those resources. They bring vehicles passing through, they bring vehicles filled to 20% or less of their capacity, and they bring street parking, one of the most inefficient uses of land imaginable in a downtown area. Look at what’s needed to bring those resources and people, only those, and you need far less than what American cities have.

dymk 2y ago

You know what those roads originally had on them? Small carriages (see etymology) and foot traffic, not modern cars. It blows my mind that people think cars are necessary for modern cities when the best ones to live have very few or no cars

Ar-Curunir 2y ago

That’s just pure nonsense. Have you been to, like, any major non-American city? People just take public transit, or walk, or, live in downtown

shiroiushi 2y ago
This entire comment section is simultaneously hilarious and sad to read, because it's obviously a bunch of myopic Americans who have never ventured outside of America and have no clue how other cities in the world work. Honestly I try to avoid commenting in forums like this because it's so fruitless: it's just like trying to have a rational discussion about vaccines (or anything really) with a bunch of Trump followers.
- wat10000 2y ago
  What’s funny is that I’m sure most of them know other kinds of cities exist. And they know that people somehow manage to survive and thrive there, even if they don’t know how. But this all gets ignored once you start talking about trying to emulate some of that. For too many Americans, there’s no difference between “that can’t work,” “that can’t work here,” and “we don’t do that.”
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  All large European cities have a lot of traffic, public transit notwithstanding. And in the small towns, most people have a car because public transit is not economical in sparsely populated areas.
- signatoremo 2y ago
  Did you know that car ownership in the Netherlands has continued to rise? This is a blog post of a cycling advocate, from 2019 but still relevant - [0] Quote: In 1992, 42% of Dutch households were car-free. By 2016 this had dropped to about a quarter. Car ownership has continued to increase since then. Higher car ownership leads to higher car usage. Almost anyone who can easily afford a car has one and there aren't many people at all who choose to go without if they can afford one: Amongst people of average income, just 12% of households don't have a car and that drops further to just 6% for high income households. In other words, people choose to own a car if they can afford it, even if they cycle frequently at the same time. [0] -https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-myth-netherlands-is-great.html?m=1 https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2019/08/the-car-free-m...

wat10000 2y ago

Giant American roads mostly don’t bring those resources. They bring vehicles passing through, they bring vehicles filled to 20% or less of their capacity, and they bring street parking, one of the most inefficient uses of land imaginable in a downtown area. Look at what’s needed to bring those resources and people, only those, and you need far less than what American cities have.