6 ms·

This is a tiresome motte-and-bailey argument. You are trying to conflate the OP comment with something it's not (base antisemitism). Just like companies founde

This is a tiresome motte-and-bailey argument. You are trying to conflate the OP comment with something it's not (base antisemitism). Just like companies founded by say former operatives of the CIA, NSA, MI6, etc. would (and maybe should?) be viewed with skepticism, so too are companies founded by former members of Unit 8200. Mentioning that Israel's military (like many others) has engaged in some less than ethical behavior is not equivalent to antisemitism. Trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

lolinder 2y ago
Israel has mandatory military service. If anyone who has ever served in the IDF is tarnished and has that part of their life periodically dragged out as evidence that they may be untrustworthy, you're saying that the entire Jewish population of the state of Israel needs to have a giant asterisk attached to them reminding everyone that they were in the IDF. That may not be strictly antisemitic—maybe you're totally fine with Jews as long as they were raised anywhere else—but it's still not a healthy way to treat people.
- joseppudev 2y ago
  I don't understand the purpose of creating ambiguity by confusing mandatory military service and intelligence corp that operates under secrecy. Original post getting flagged is not a great sight either.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    IDF Unit 8200 consists of thousands of conscripts serving their mandatory military service. If I were in Israel subject to conscription, I would absolutely have attempted to position myself into that unit for my mandatory service, as would most here. Beats the infantry. What exactly am I confusing by pointing that out? Were you under the impression that this unit was something like the NSA, staffed with people who chose to spy on people as a career? Because it's not. It's staffed by kids who are very good with computers and who—when given a choice between covert intelligence and a branch that actively shoots guns at people—chose the intelligence arm. Which would you have chosen?
    - PessimalDecimal 2y ago
      https://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-pager-explosions-put-spotlight-on-israels-cyber-warfare-unit-8200/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-pager-explosions-put... Just months ago, some of those "kids who are very good with computers" caused compromised pagers to explode, with no knowledge of who would be near them. Civilians, including children, died as a result. It is right to think people who are "good with computers" in this way might not have the best intentions in their other applications of computers.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        The other alternative that those kids were given was to shoot guns or missiles. Are you really comfortable blaming them for the rest of their lives for choosing the option that likely gave them the smallest chance of killing people? Any Israeli citizen in that age bracket today is going to be running a real risk of killing people. They don't have a choice (dodging the draft doesn't count as a choice). If you're going to hold that over for them for the rest of their lives I don't know how that's distinct from racism (or countryism if you prefer).
        PessimalDecimal 2y ago
        > Are you really comfortable blaming them for the rest of their lives for choosing the option that likely gave them the smallest chance of killing people? Yes. The "just following orders" excuse has been tried in the past. People didn't buy it then and we won't buy it now. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-soldiers-arrest-abroad-war-crimes-gaza-idf-brazil-rcna186335 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-soldiers-arrest-ab... If the IDF wants to name the specific individuals from Unit 8200 who were involved in maiming or killing civilians including children by blowing up electronics in their faces, that might change things. Then it'd be a lot easier for people to avoid having concerns about that entire unit. Not naming them seems a lot like tacit support by the IDF for the actions of those in Unit 8200 who killed those children. Otherwise, people very well may have concerns about that entire unit. That's not "racism."

lolinder 2y ago

Israel has mandatory military service. If anyone who has ever served in the IDF is tarnished and has that part of their life periodically dragged out as evidence that they may be untrustworthy, you're saying that the entire Jewish population of the state of Israel needs to have a giant asterisk attached to them reminding everyone that they were in the IDF. That may not be strictly antisemitic—maybe you're totally fine with Jews as long as they were raised anywhere else—but it's still not a healthy way to treat people.

joseppudev 2y ago
I don't understand the purpose of creating ambiguity by confusing mandatory military service and intelligence corp that operates under secrecy. Original post getting flagged is not a great sight either.
- lolinder 2y ago
  IDF Unit 8200 consists of thousands of conscripts serving their mandatory military service. If I were in Israel subject to conscription, I would absolutely have attempted to position myself into that unit for my mandatory service, as would most here. Beats the infantry. What exactly am I confusing by pointing that out? Were you under the impression that this unit was something like the NSA, staffed with people who chose to spy on people as a career? Because it's not. It's staffed by kids who are very good with computers and who—when given a choice between covert intelligence and a branch that actively shoots guns at people—chose the intelligence arm. Which would you have chosen?
  - PessimalDecimal 2y ago
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-pager-explosions-put-spotlight-on-israels-cyber-warfare-unit-8200/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-pager-explosions-put... Just months ago, some of those "kids who are very good with computers" caused compromised pagers to explode, with no knowledge of who would be near them. Civilians, including children, died as a result. It is right to think people who are "good with computers" in this way might not have the best intentions in their other applications of computers.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      The other alternative that those kids were given was to shoot guns or missiles. Are you really comfortable blaming them for the rest of their lives for choosing the option that likely gave them the smallest chance of killing people? Any Israeli citizen in that age bracket today is going to be running a real risk of killing people. They don't have a choice (dodging the draft doesn't count as a choice). If you're going to hold that over for them for the rest of their lives I don't know how that's distinct from racism (or countryism if you prefer).
      - PessimalDecimal 2y ago
        > Are you really comfortable blaming them for the rest of their lives for choosing the option that likely gave them the smallest chance of killing people? Yes. The "just following orders" excuse has been tried in the past. People didn't buy it then and we won't buy it now. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-soldiers-arrest-abroad-war-crimes-gaza-idf-brazil-rcna186335 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-soldiers-arrest-ab... If the IDF wants to name the specific individuals from Unit 8200 who were involved in maiming or killing civilians including children by blowing up electronics in their faces, that might change things. Then it'd be a lot easier for people to avoid having concerns about that entire unit. Not naming them seems a lot like tacit support by the IDF for the actions of those in Unit 8200 who killed those children. Otherwise, people very well may have concerns about that entire unit. That's not "racism."