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I don't have a dog in this hunt. I've never worked with Snyk, I've never been a customer, and I don't think I even know anyone who works there. That said, they'

I don't have a dog in this hunt. I've never worked with Snyk, I've never been a customer, and I don't think I even know anyone who works there. That said, they've built their whole company around being trustworthy and doubt they'd knowingly do anything to risk their entire business. Also, I can hardly imagine someone better positioned to protect against supply chain attacks. Your criticism sounds to me like "just a reminder that this armed bodyguard service comprises Navy SEALs and Army Rangers". Uh, great!

CuriouslyC 2y ago
Maybe if you change that to "armed bodyguard services employ ex KGB assassins"
- nullityrofl 2y ago
  I think you've missed the point: it's Americentric to assume that Navy SEALs and Army Rangers are inherently pure, good and have done nothing evil on behalf of the American government when we largely know that to be untrue.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    That wasn't my point at all. The point was that often the best people to protect a resource are the ones who know how to attack it.
myth_drannon 2y ago
[flagged]
- RHSeeger 2y ago
  They just recently snuck bombs into a supply chain and then remotely detonated them in positions where the caused civilian injuries. I would assume the comment has nothing to do with religion/race, and everything to do with the actions taken. Even for someone that is a supporter of that government, it's hard to deny they've taken some actions that are unsupportable.
  - myth_drannon 2y ago
    How the hell that is connected to a private software company? Nvidia, Google, Microsoft, Intel is full of ex-8200.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Who is "they"? Are we talking about Snyk? IDF Unit 8200? The IDF as a whole? The state of Israel? Jews in general? The reason why OP's comment feels like a racist dog whistle is because it's an enormous and dangerous generalization that seems to encompass an entire country. Israel has mandatory military service—if everyone who's ever served in the IDF is untrustworthy because they served in the IDF then you're by definition excluding nearly every Israeli citizen from trust. I guess that's not strictly antisemitism—maybe you're happy to trust Jews that don't live in Israel—but it's definitely an unsavory position to take.
    - Der_Einzige 2y ago
      It's not just the IDF, you have a CHOICE to join the spymaster side of it, vs being a regular grunt. That unit is part of Aman, the military version of Mossad.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        And why would choosing to be a grunt be more morally pure? I'm a techie, if I were forced into conscription I would absolutely choose an option that let me use computers over one that forced me to shoot a gun. There's no way on Earth I can hold it against a bunch of kids who were forced to make that choice that they chose the intelligence arm. And frankly, I have a hard time seeing how someone on this forum could hold that against them in good faith. Nearly everyone here would make the same call given that choice. If you think you wouldn't have, you're probably deluding yourself.
    - KennyBlanken 2y ago
      Godwin's got an itch he can't scratch and doesn't know why.... "Encompassing the entire country" would be anti-zionist, not antisemitic. There is a huge difference, and that does not change because the majority of people in that country are a particular religion, just like it's not "Anti-Protestant" if someone attacks Great Britain policies, or "Anti-Hindu" if someone criticizes India. There is a difference, to the extent that there are plenty of jews who are anti-zionist. Would you like to accuse them of being antisemitic because "nearly every Israeli citizen is Jewish"? Also, it's your construct that criticizing the policies and actions of a country's military and government is "anti" that county...
- PessimalDecimal 2y ago
  This is a tiresome motte-and-bailey argument. You are trying to conflate the OP comment with something it's not (base antisemitism). Just like companies founded by say former operatives of the CIA, NSA, MI6, etc. would (and maybe should?) be viewed with skepticism, so too are companies founded by former members of Unit 8200. Mentioning that Israel's military (like many others) has engaged in some less than ethical behavior is not equivalent to antisemitism. Trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Israel has mandatory military service. If anyone who has ever served in the IDF is tarnished and has that part of their life periodically dragged out as evidence that they may be untrustworthy, you're saying that the entire Jewish population of the state of Israel needs to have a giant asterisk attached to them reminding everyone that they were in the IDF. That may not be strictly antisemitic—maybe you're totally fine with Jews as long as they were raised anywhere else—but it's still not a healthy way to treat people.
    - joseppudev 2y ago
      I don't understand the purpose of creating ambiguity by confusing mandatory military service and intelligence corp that operates under secrecy. Original post getting flagged is not a great sight either.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        IDF Unit 8200 consists of thousands of conscripts serving their mandatory military service. If I were in Israel subject to conscription, I would absolutely have attempted to position myself into that unit for my mandatory service, as would most here. Beats the infantry. What exactly am I confusing by pointing that out? Were you under the impression that this unit was something like the NSA, staffed with people who chose to spy on people as a career? Because it's not. It's staffed by kids who are very good with computers and who—when given a choice between covert intelligence and a branch that actively shoots guns at people—chose the intelligence arm. Which would you have chosen?
bbqfog 2y ago
I have no downside to seeking alternatives. The pager incident ensured that I will always look for non-Israeli tech.
- PoppinFreshDo 2y ago
  What pager incident?
  - mhitza 2y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_electronic_device_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_electronic_devi...
    - PoppinFreshDo 2y ago
      Well, if the mossad put "made in israel" on those devices I doubt they would have worked.
  - defrost 2y ago
    The recent one in which Israeli techs compromised pager supply chains. It was very widely reported across the globe.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  And what does that have to do with Snyk, other than that some of their employees use to work for IDF? I'm a US Navy veteran. Would you also stay away from my employers because they have veterans on staff? Seriously, I get what you're trying to say, but I don't understand the broader point you're trying to make. So Snyk has some ex-IDF employees. Find a high-profile infosec firm that doesn't. They military service they were compelled to has a reputation at being really, really good at infosec. I see no reason why companies shouldn't want to hire them afterward.
  - defrost 2y ago
    Without wanting to take a position here, the GP comment had a specific narrow point. The claim was that Snyk was founded by Unit 8200 members. Not that it had a few Israeli veterens, almost all Israeli's serve in the IDF after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200 To be fair I have a former Unit 8200 member in my larger extended family who left and has since been vocal in opposition to Netanyahu so membership in an elite Cyber Unit alone doesn't define a person. That aside, most Governments would keep an eye on a company started by, say, former NSA employees and watch for covert activity under any overt actions.
xyzzy123 2y ago
I'd give good odds it was a mistake by a staff member (or small group) who overstepped and was not part of any formal work. Most companies where I've worked as a security researcher, you get some time as part of your job to hack on random stuff to be able to generate interesting talks / research. This feels like that. This isn't a special cyber spooky practice, most pentesting companies do this to generate IP (rarely, lol), buzz (reasonably often) and keep the staff happy (this is really the main thing). It's rare for management to be fully across the scope of this.
manquer 2y ago
I would say it is on similar to criticism of TikTok or Huwaei and China. It has less to do with whether it malicious intent from the start of building an organization for explicit intent of capturing core infra. It has more to do with how the Government of Israel operates and the legal requests they can make of their citizens and/or veterans. Perhaps concern over Israeli products should be probably higher than for China as Israel more well known incidents of exploits as a State actor like with Stuxnet, Pegasus or more recently with pagers etc. China no doubt has their own share of operations but they either have not used them as publicly in a large scale overt operation or been more discreet about it. Point is the concern is valid just as it would be valid for China.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  You mean like how we found out that China attacked and pwn3d the entire US phone system? That’s not a shining example of discretion.
  - manquer 2y ago
    As the U.S. has done to our closest allies and their leaders, would be shocking and incompetent if they have not done much more in Russia and China and vice versa There is no equivalence intelligence gathering or gaining the capability for sabotage (which everyone does) versus actual active sabotage which today only Israel executes like with Stuxnet or with the pagers.

CuriouslyC 2y ago

Maybe if you change that to "armed bodyguard services employ ex KGB assassins"

nullityrofl 2y ago
I think you've missed the point: it's Americentric to assume that Navy SEALs and Army Rangers are inherently pure, good and have done nothing evil on behalf of the American government when we largely know that to be untrue.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  That wasn't my point at all. The point was that often the best people to protect a resource are the ones who know how to attack it.

myth_drannon 2y ago

[flagged]

RHSeeger 2y ago
They just recently snuck bombs into a supply chain and then remotely detonated them in positions where the caused civilian injuries. I would assume the comment has nothing to do with religion/race, and everything to do with the actions taken. Even for someone that is a supporter of that government, it's hard to deny they've taken some actions that are unsupportable.
- myth_drannon 2y ago
  How the hell that is connected to a private software company? Nvidia, Google, Microsoft, Intel is full of ex-8200.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Who is "they"? Are we talking about Snyk? IDF Unit 8200? The IDF as a whole? The state of Israel? Jews in general? The reason why OP's comment feels like a racist dog whistle is because it's an enormous and dangerous generalization that seems to encompass an entire country. Israel has mandatory military service—if everyone who's ever served in the IDF is untrustworthy because they served in the IDF then you're by definition excluding nearly every Israeli citizen from trust. I guess that's not strictly antisemitism—maybe you're happy to trust Jews that don't live in Israel—but it's definitely an unsavory position to take.
  - Der_Einzige 2y ago
    It's not just the IDF, you have a CHOICE to join the spymaster side of it, vs being a regular grunt. That unit is part of Aman, the military version of Mossad.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      And why would choosing to be a grunt be more morally pure? I'm a techie, if I were forced into conscription I would absolutely choose an option that let me use computers over one that forced me to shoot a gun. There's no way on Earth I can hold it against a bunch of kids who were forced to make that choice that they chose the intelligence arm. And frankly, I have a hard time seeing how someone on this forum could hold that against them in good faith. Nearly everyone here would make the same call given that choice. If you think you wouldn't have, you're probably deluding yourself.
  - KennyBlanken 2y ago
    Godwin's got an itch he can't scratch and doesn't know why.... "Encompassing the entire country" would be anti-zionist, not antisemitic. There is a huge difference, and that does not change because the majority of people in that country are a particular religion, just like it's not "Anti-Protestant" if someone attacks Great Britain policies, or "Anti-Hindu" if someone criticizes India. There is a difference, to the extent that there are plenty of jews who are anti-zionist. Would you like to accuse them of being antisemitic because "nearly every Israeli citizen is Jewish"? Also, it's your construct that criticizing the policies and actions of a country's military and government is "anti" that county...
PessimalDecimal 2y ago
This is a tiresome motte-and-bailey argument. You are trying to conflate the OP comment with something it's not (base antisemitism). Just like companies founded by say former operatives of the CIA, NSA, MI6, etc. would (and maybe should?) be viewed with skepticism, so too are companies founded by former members of Unit 8200. Mentioning that Israel's military (like many others) has engaged in some less than ethical behavior is not equivalent to antisemitism. Trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Israel has mandatory military service. If anyone who has ever served in the IDF is tarnished and has that part of their life periodically dragged out as evidence that they may be untrustworthy, you're saying that the entire Jewish population of the state of Israel needs to have a giant asterisk attached to them reminding everyone that they were in the IDF. That may not be strictly antisemitic—maybe you're totally fine with Jews as long as they were raised anywhere else—but it's still not a healthy way to treat people.
  - joseppudev 2y ago
    I don't understand the purpose of creating ambiguity by confusing mandatory military service and intelligence corp that operates under secrecy. Original post getting flagged is not a great sight either.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      IDF Unit 8200 consists of thousands of conscripts serving their mandatory military service. If I were in Israel subject to conscription, I would absolutely have attempted to position myself into that unit for my mandatory service, as would most here. Beats the infantry. What exactly am I confusing by pointing that out? Were you under the impression that this unit was something like the NSA, staffed with people who chose to spy on people as a career? Because it's not. It's staffed by kids who are very good with computers and who—when given a choice between covert intelligence and a branch that actively shoots guns at people—chose the intelligence arm. Which would you have chosen?

bbqfog 2y ago

I have no downside to seeking alternatives. The pager incident ensured that I will always look for non-Israeli tech.

PoppinFreshDo 2y ago
What pager incident?
- mhitza 2y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_electronic_device_attacks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_electronic_devi...
  - PoppinFreshDo 2y ago
    Well, if the mossad put "made in israel" on those devices I doubt they would have worked.
- defrost 2y ago
  The recent one in which Israeli techs compromised pager supply chains. It was very widely reported across the globe.
kstrauser 2y ago
And what does that have to do with Snyk, other than that some of their employees use to work for IDF? I'm a US Navy veteran. Would you also stay away from my employers because they have veterans on staff? Seriously, I get what you're trying to say, but I don't understand the broader point you're trying to make. So Snyk has some ex-IDF employees. Find a high-profile infosec firm that doesn't. They military service they were compelled to has a reputation at being really, really good at infosec. I see no reason why companies shouldn't want to hire them afterward.
- defrost 2y ago
  Without wanting to take a position here, the GP comment had a specific narrow point. The claim was that Snyk was founded by Unit 8200 members. Not that it had a few Israeli veterens, almost all Israeli's serve in the IDF after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_8200 To be fair I have a former Unit 8200 member in my larger extended family who left and has since been vocal in opposition to Netanyahu so membership in an elite Cyber Unit alone doesn't define a person. That aside, most Governments would keep an eye on a company started by, say, former NSA employees and watch for covert activity under any overt actions.

xyzzy123 2y ago

I'd give good odds it was a mistake by a staff member (or small group) who overstepped and was not part of any formal work. Most companies where I've worked as a security researcher, you get some time as part of your job to hack on random stuff to be able to generate interesting talks / research. This feels like that. This isn't a special cyber spooky practice, most pentesting companies do this to generate IP (rarely, lol), buzz (reasonably often) and keep the staff happy (this is really the main thing). It's rare for management to be fully across the scope of this.

manquer 2y ago

I would say it is on similar to criticism of TikTok or Huwaei and China. It has less to do with whether it malicious intent from the start of building an organization for explicit intent of capturing core infra. It has more to do with how the Government of Israel operates and the legal requests they can make of their citizens and/or veterans. Perhaps concern over Israeli products should be probably higher than for China as Israel more well known incidents of exploits as a State actor like with Stuxnet, Pegasus or more recently with pagers etc. China no doubt has their own share of operations but they either have not used them as publicly in a large scale overt operation or been more discreet about it. Point is the concern is valid just as it would be valid for China.

kstrauser 2y ago
You mean like how we found out that China attacked and pwn3d the entire US phone system? That’s not a shining example of discretion.
- manquer 2y ago
  As the U.S. has done to our closest allies and their leaders, would be shocking and incompetent if they have not done much more in Russia and China and vice versa There is no equivalence intelligence gathering or gaining the capability for sabotage (which everyone does) versus actual active sabotage which today only Israel executes like with Stuxnet or with the pagers.