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It’s always supply. It’s fair to criticize foreign ownership/hedge funds purchasing homes, but the overwhelming reason is that we are not building enough.

stavros 2y ago
Sure, but it's one thing to not be building enough for people to live in, and another thing to not be building enough for people to keep empty flats as speculation vehicles.
- golergka 2y ago
  When too many flats are used as speculation vehicles, the bubble pops and the problem solves itself.
  - epicureanideal 2y ago
    Except at that point the wealthy homeowners will ask for bailouts.
- gruez 2y ago
  How many % of flats are empty? At least in the US the hottest housing markets usually have the lowest vacancy rates. This makes sense, because the opportunity costs for leaving a property empty is higher, so owners are more tempted to rent them out.
  - jedberg 2y ago
    The vacancy rates are deceiving though. If you have a place that is owned by someone and they are paying taxes on it, and it's not listed as a rental, it's not considered vacant. In big cities there are definitely homes that are empty and not listed being used as a store of wealth. In fact just within view of my own home are two houses like that. Both owned by foreign families who wanted a safer place to keep their wealth than their own country (China and India respectively).
    - gruez 2y ago
      >The vacancy rates are deceiving though. If you have a place that is owned by someone and they are paying taxes on it, and it's not listed as a rental, it's not considered vacant. Why would you lie like that? https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/definitions.pdf https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/definitions.pdf Occupied Housing Units. A housing unit is occupied if a person or group of persons is living in it at the time of the interview or if the occupants are only temporarily absent, as for example, on vacation. The persons living in the unit must consider it their usual place of residence or have no usual place of residence elsewhere. The count of occupied housing units is the same as the count of households Vacant Housing Units. A housing unit is vacant if no one is living in it at the time of the interview, unless its occupants are only temporarily absent. In addition, a vacant unit may be one which is entirely occupied by persons who have a usual residence elsewhere. New units not yet occupied are classified as vacant housing units if construction has reached a point where all exterior windows and doors are installed and final usable floors are in place. Vacant units are excluded if they are exposed to the elements, that is, if the roof, walls, windows, or doors no longer protect the interior from the elements, or if there is positive evidence (such as a sign on the house or block) that the unit is to be demolished or is condemned. Also excluded are quarters being used entirely for nonresidential purposes, such as a store or an office, or quarters used for the storage of business supplies or inventory, machinery, or agricultural products. Vacant sleeping rooms in lodging houses, transient accommodations, barracks, and other quarters not defined as housing units are not included in the statistics in this report. (See section on "Housing Unit.")
      - jedberg 2y ago
        That happens once every 10 years. They use tax records and other records to estimate it otherwise. Also people will just not return the form, and once again they have to estimate. And in places that impose a vacancy tax, they have incentive to lie or deceive the housing authority to avoid the tax. And in my neighbors case for example they come by once every few months to pick up mail and probably fill out those types of forms. In reality there are a lot of vacant homes that aren't counted as vacant.
  - 0_____0 2y ago
    I think it's really important to press people on this point, because "vacant homes as an investment vehicle" gets trotted out as a thought-killing cliche. Surely there are some pied-a-terre and vacant investment properties, but vacant rental housing in NYC for example was 1.4% in 2023. I'm not sure how they measure this, but even if you doubled the amount of available rental housing, it would still be an insanely hot rental market. Places that have stable or decreasing housing prices (NoLa, Austin) have over 10% of rentals vacant.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  I still have seen no evidence that VC-backed purchases are having any noticeable impact on the US housing market except possibly in 2 or 3 specific locales (and quite restricted ones at that). So, whatcha got?
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Well, the US could build ten thousand Burj Khalifas and the property tax from that would sustain Medicare for All.
- epicureanideal 2y ago
  If they want to pay lots of property taxes and contribute to payments for local infrastructure without actually using it, that’s probably a net good thing, IF there were enough additional homes to go around for others.
somewhereoutth 2y ago
however, like roads, it is entirely possible that building more in desirable neighborhoods simply leads to more wealthy people having more options for which (otherwise empty) residence they choose to spend the weekend at.
CommanderData 2y ago
The return on property is too good to pass up to an investor. This is a step in the right direction and need something like this in the UK.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

stavros 2y ago

Sure, but it's one thing to not be building enough for people to live in, and another thing to not be building enough for people to keep empty flats as speculation vehicles.

golergka 2y ago
When too many flats are used as speculation vehicles, the bubble pops and the problem solves itself.
- epicureanideal 2y ago
  Except at that point the wealthy homeowners will ask for bailouts.
gruez 2y ago
How many % of flats are empty? At least in the US the hottest housing markets usually have the lowest vacancy rates. This makes sense, because the opportunity costs for leaving a property empty is higher, so owners are more tempted to rent them out.
- jedberg 2y ago
  The vacancy rates are deceiving though. If you have a place that is owned by someone and they are paying taxes on it, and it's not listed as a rental, it's not considered vacant. In big cities there are definitely homes that are empty and not listed being used as a store of wealth. In fact just within view of my own home are two houses like that. Both owned by foreign families who wanted a safer place to keep their wealth than their own country (China and India respectively).
  - gruez 2y ago
    >The vacancy rates are deceiving though. If you have a place that is owned by someone and they are paying taxes on it, and it's not listed as a rental, it's not considered vacant. Why would you lie like that? https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/definitions.pdf https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/definitions.pdf Occupied Housing Units. A housing unit is occupied if a person or group of persons is living in it at the time of the interview or if the occupants are only temporarily absent, as for example, on vacation. The persons living in the unit must consider it their usual place of residence or have no usual place of residence elsewhere. The count of occupied housing units is the same as the count of households Vacant Housing Units. A housing unit is vacant if no one is living in it at the time of the interview, unless its occupants are only temporarily absent. In addition, a vacant unit may be one which is entirely occupied by persons who have a usual residence elsewhere. New units not yet occupied are classified as vacant housing units if construction has reached a point where all exterior windows and doors are installed and final usable floors are in place. Vacant units are excluded if they are exposed to the elements, that is, if the roof, walls, windows, or doors no longer protect the interior from the elements, or if there is positive evidence (such as a sign on the house or block) that the unit is to be demolished or is condemned. Also excluded are quarters being used entirely for nonresidential purposes, such as a store or an office, or quarters used for the storage of business supplies or inventory, machinery, or agricultural products. Vacant sleeping rooms in lodging houses, transient accommodations, barracks, and other quarters not defined as housing units are not included in the statistics in this report. (See section on "Housing Unit.")
    - jedberg 2y ago
      That happens once every 10 years. They use tax records and other records to estimate it otherwise. Also people will just not return the form, and once again they have to estimate. And in places that impose a vacancy tax, they have incentive to lie or deceive the housing authority to avoid the tax. And in my neighbors case for example they come by once every few months to pick up mail and probably fill out those types of forms. In reality there are a lot of vacant homes that aren't counted as vacant.
- 0_____0 2y ago
  I think it's really important to press people on this point, because "vacant homes as an investment vehicle" gets trotted out as a thought-killing cliche. Surely there are some pied-a-terre and vacant investment properties, but vacant rental housing in NYC for example was 1.4% in 2023. I'm not sure how they measure this, but even if you doubled the amount of available rental housing, it would still be an insanely hot rental market. Places that have stable or decreasing housing prices (NoLa, Austin) have over 10% of rentals vacant.
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
I still have seen no evidence that VC-backed purchases are having any noticeable impact on the US housing market except possibly in 2 or 3 specific locales (and quite restricted ones at that). So, whatcha got?
renewiltord 2y ago
Well, the US could build ten thousand Burj Khalifas and the property tax from that would sustain Medicare for All.
epicureanideal 2y ago
If they want to pay lots of property taxes and contribute to payments for local infrastructure without actually using it, that’s probably a net good thing, IF there were enough additional homes to go around for others.

somewhereoutth 2y ago

however, like roads, it is entirely possible that building more in desirable neighborhoods simply leads to more wealthy people having more options for which (otherwise empty) residence they choose to spend the weekend at.

CommanderData 2y ago

The return on property is too good to pass up to an investor. This is a step in the right direction and need something like this in the UK.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]