5 ms·

it's somewhat valid though, why continue providing free code for wp engine to resell when wp engine doesn't contribute to open source themselves? wp engine has

it's somewhat valid though, why continue providing free code for wp engine to resell when wp engine doesn't contribute to open source themselves? wp engine has also bought out multiple competing hosts, so they're a direct competitor with deep pockets

Volundr 2y ago
> wp engine doesn't contribute to open source themselves At minimum they contribute Advanced Custom Fields, one of the most heavily used plugins. I make no judgement on if they contribute enough, but it's not like they give zero back to the ecosystem.
- cies 2y ago
  it's not for you to decide, but for Automattic to decide how much contribution is needed for them to allow you to use their services. the code of WP is free software. free-as-in-freedom. the services are not, and never were... they were free-as-in-beer. RMS taught us about this, and it comes in handy again.
  - Volundr 2y ago
    I don't recall voicing an opinion either way. In fact I specifically said I don't know if it's enough, but saying they contribute nothing is factually incorrect. And no lack of contribution would justify taking over ACF in what is essentially a supply chain attack like they did.
    - cies 2y ago
      The contribute to the ecosystem, a little to the WP code, but use for free the services that Automattic provides. It's the services that they got cut-off from. They are separate things that to the layman are seen as "wordpress". > I don't recall voicing an opinion Well, you mention they contribute to the ecosystem. If it is not your supply chain, you cannot dictate how it is run. You call it an attach, they call it a commercial endeavour.
gamblor956 2y ago
If "free code" being resold is the issue, then Matt's eve worse of a freeloader, since most of the code in WordPress was provided for free by people not employed by Matt.
- micromacrofoot 2y ago
  > most of the code in WordPress was provided for free by people not employed by Matt Automattic previously spent ~4k hours a week maintaining wordpress, so I'm not sure what you're on about
  - gamblor956 2y ago
    Matt's a known liar, and that 4000/hours a week includes a lot of stuff that doesn't involve working on code. (For example, Matt is including time spent censoring the WP forums, and harassing event sponsors in that time.) Given that the bulk of the WordPress team quit last year, I'd be surprised if they're even spending a 100 hours/week as a company right now on anything related to code right now. But if we're going by hours...the WP Community as a whole probably spent several hundred thousand hours on maintaining or improving WP last week.
    - micromacrofoot 2y ago
      > I'd be surprised if they're even spending a 100 hours/week as a company right now. Even if half the staff quit (they didn't) they'd still have hundreds of employees... You seriously don't think they had 4 people working on Wordpress full-time?
      - gamblor956 2y ago
        The staff that quit was the staff that worked on WP. Almost none of the remaining employees worked on it, so yeah I would not be surprised if only 4 people are working on it now and that's the real cause of Matt pulling back on their WP work.

Volundr 2y ago

> wp engine doesn't contribute to open source themselves At minimum they contribute Advanced Custom Fields, one of the most heavily used plugins. I make no judgement on if they contribute enough, but it's not like they give zero back to the ecosystem.

cies 2y ago
it's not for you to decide, but for Automattic to decide how much contribution is needed for them to allow you to use their services. the code of WP is free software. free-as-in-freedom. the services are not, and never were... they were free-as-in-beer. RMS taught us about this, and it comes in handy again.
- Volundr 2y ago
  I don't recall voicing an opinion either way. In fact I specifically said I don't know if it's enough, but saying they contribute nothing is factually incorrect. And no lack of contribution would justify taking over ACF in what is essentially a supply chain attack like they did.
  - cies 2y ago
    The contribute to the ecosystem, a little to the WP code, but use for free the services that Automattic provides. It's the services that they got cut-off from. They are separate things that to the layman are seen as "wordpress". > I don't recall voicing an opinion Well, you mention they contribute to the ecosystem. If it is not your supply chain, you cannot dictate how it is run. You call it an attach, they call it a commercial endeavour.

gamblor956 2y ago

If "free code" being resold is the issue, then Matt's eve worse of a freeloader, since most of the code in WordPress was provided for free by people not employed by Matt.

micromacrofoot 2y ago
> most of the code in WordPress was provided for free by people not employed by Matt Automattic previously spent ~4k hours a week maintaining wordpress, so I'm not sure what you're on about
- gamblor956 2y ago
  Matt's a known liar, and that 4000/hours a week includes a lot of stuff that doesn't involve working on code. (For example, Matt is including time spent censoring the WP forums, and harassing event sponsors in that time.) Given that the bulk of the WordPress team quit last year, I'd be surprised if they're even spending a 100 hours/week as a company right now on anything related to code right now. But if we're going by hours...the WP Community as a whole probably spent several hundred thousand hours on maintaining or improving WP last week.
  - micromacrofoot 2y ago
    > I'd be surprised if they're even spending a 100 hours/week as a company right now. Even if half the staff quit (they didn't) they'd still have hundreds of employees... You seriously don't think they had 4 people working on Wordpress full-time?
    - gamblor956 2y ago
      The staff that quit was the staff that worked on WP. Almost none of the remaining employees worked on it, so yeah I would not be surprised if only 4 people are working on it now and that's the real cause of Matt pulling back on their WP work.