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>Why did it take years for the chickens to come home to roost? because the problem with sonos is that they're actually really really good. dollar for dollar,

>Why did it take years for the chickens to come home to roost? because the problem with sonos is that they're actually really really good. dollar for dollar, it's some of the best sound quality you can find for home audio, and it doesn't require a month of product research to figure it out. it's easily available in most big-box stores, and unlike some other brands they don't have a shit-tier line of products that look indistinguishable from their good stuff so you have to be cautious as a consumer to buy only the good stuff. if you go to best buy and spend $500 on sonos products, you're going to get your moneys worth. it's too bad their app sucks, because their hardware doesn't.

omnimus 2y ago
I dont think this is true. I am no audiophile but Sonos is actually quite expensive vs getting some streamer like Wiim with basic cheap amp and any solid speaker brand - KEF, Elac, Klipsh, Polk… I know its some choices but any of them are good choice its mostly flavours. What you get for same money will sound better and 100% last longer because you have modular system instead of glued box that stops working when Sonos stops caring about the product (like they did before).
- notatoad 2y ago
  yeah, so you've gone from walking in to a store and coming out with a single box that you can plug in to power and connect to wifi and get music on, to decision on what amp to buy, and a decision on which of the hundred nearly identical bookshelf speakers to get, a question on whether your amp will drive those speakers. and then you've got to find a store to actually sell you all that stuff. it's an entirely different market from what sonos is providing to customers. fwiw i did exactly what you're suggesting for my personal use, i've got a wiim pro and a fosi v3 and kanto 5" speakers and i'm very happy with my setup. but i'm a nerd who likes shopping for things like that, and i know enough to know that most people would rather not. and it's not like i saved anything compared to going with a sonos. edit: and, as i just learned a little further down the thread, you've also got to be careful which model of wiim you buy - the newest and nicest ones don't have airplay.
  - tjoff 2y ago
    So instead of: > because the problem with sonos is that they're actually really really good. dollar for dollar They were really expensive, but people confused quality (why else would it cost so much) with convenience and were happy not knowing about anything else. It's a good strategy, works well for other companies. But when you remove the convenience part of it everything else falls apart too.
  - omnimus 2y ago
    So now choice is a bad thing? Let people have their Sonoses. The thing with audio gear is that if you get any of the recommended (youtube, reddit) cheap stuff and you are not audiophile level hobbiist you will like it. I would not say you didnt get anything back. You got setup where at minimum the speakers will work for decades.
  - omnimus 2y ago
    Afaik WiiM ultra doesnt have Airplay yet as is new it needs certification. I believe this was the case with other their devices. People who pay for WiiM ultra most likely dont care about Airplay anyway because Airplay 2 devices send lossy AAC 256kbps audio. You dont get streamer for 329usd to send reencoded music there. You get it so it streams from the original sources directly.
    - notatoad 2y ago
      official word from wiim is that the ultra will never have airplay the reason airplay matters so much is that even if you want great audio quality and care about the bitrate of your music, other people in your house don't and just want to make music come out of the speakers. no airplay resigns the device to "nobody else can use it" status.
      - omnimus 2y ago
        I wonder what all the people with Android or Windows are doing? I guess they cant listen to music… What a sad life it has to be.
- okdood64 2y ago
  > I am no audiophile but Sonos is actually quite expensive vs getting some streamer like Wiim with basic cheap amp and any solid speaker brand - KEF, Elac, Klipsh, Polk… The whole point is Sonos is easy. One product for speakers. Another one for a sub (which most people don't even need). Ok now you're done. And then there's people who really don't have space for all that.
  - bradly 2y ago
    KEF LS50 Wireless IIs and Dutch & Dutch 8cs are just a couple example of how the hifi market has embraced embedded streamers. They are excellent options for high quality sound with very low setup.
    - omnimus 2y ago
      You still miss the streamer. The speakers are active with bluetooth reciever but cant play music by themselves. I am not sure if then its not better to go sonos. Either go full modular or nothing. Active speakers are not popular exactly because its usually the amp that dies and then your speakers die with it. Then again you can look for wiim mini packaged with active speakers - they have colab/packages like this. I recently got wiim+edifier [1] in sale for 130usd and its shockingly good combo for fraction of sonos (especially since its stereo). [1] https://a.co/d/12SwuBQ https://a.co/d/12SwuBQ
      - bradly 2y ago
        > You still miss the streamer Are you familar with the models I've referenced? Both include streamers.
        omnimus 2y ago
        Oh interesting. You are right i always thought they are not streamers and thats why i always dismissed idea of LS50 Wireless. That makes it indeed a lot more interesting if you are $$$ and dont really care if they one day stop software support.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dmazzoni 2y ago
They're not the only good speakers these days, though.' When they came out, there was nothing else that had their combination of sound quality and app features. Before their new app, the competition had basically caught up, Sonos was only marginally better in a few ways. With their new app, I'd never recommend Sonos.
- hijklmnopq 2y ago
  Who actually uses the app? I only used it for setup. My Era 300 works great and ive never touched the app. Also what brands make speakers that sound just as good for the price and simplicity of setup? Asking legitimately not a jab.
  - jajko 2y ago
    I bought recently Samsung HW-Q990D, generally better rated than similarly priced Sonos. Had a bit of mental resistance with the Samsung+audio pair, I am more a Sennheiser type of person. Sound is fine, not hifi just a notch below, but good hifi surround is a 10k thingie. They cost 500-800 in Europe, much less than Sonos surround+sub solutions. No issues with connectivity, connect via eArc with TV without issues and starts with it, bluetooth with both Samsung and Apple OK too. Have some extra features when paired with Samsung TVs. One detail I love - extra bass control on remote, so I can move it down easily during late night watching (low frequencies travel better through walls). I like them a lot and run Spotify from phone on them all the time.

omnimus 2y ago

I dont think this is true. I am no audiophile but Sonos is actually quite expensive vs getting some streamer like Wiim with basic cheap amp and any solid speaker brand - KEF, Elac, Klipsh, Polk… I know its some choices but any of them are good choice its mostly flavours. What you get for same money will sound better and 100% last longer because you have modular system instead of glued box that stops working when Sonos stops caring about the product (like they did before).

notatoad 2y ago
yeah, so you've gone from walking in to a store and coming out with a single box that you can plug in to power and connect to wifi and get music on, to decision on what amp to buy, and a decision on which of the hundred nearly identical bookshelf speakers to get, a question on whether your amp will drive those speakers. and then you've got to find a store to actually sell you all that stuff. it's an entirely different market from what sonos is providing to customers. fwiw i did exactly what you're suggesting for my personal use, i've got a wiim pro and a fosi v3 and kanto 5" speakers and i'm very happy with my setup. but i'm a nerd who likes shopping for things like that, and i know enough to know that most people would rather not. and it's not like i saved anything compared to going with a sonos. edit: and, as i just learned a little further down the thread, you've also got to be careful which model of wiim you buy - the newest and nicest ones don't have airplay.
- tjoff 2y ago
  So instead of: > because the problem with sonos is that they're actually really really good. dollar for dollar They were really expensive, but people confused quality (why else would it cost so much) with convenience and were happy not knowing about anything else. It's a good strategy, works well for other companies. But when you remove the convenience part of it everything else falls apart too.
- omnimus 2y ago
  So now choice is a bad thing? Let people have their Sonoses. The thing with audio gear is that if you get any of the recommended (youtube, reddit) cheap stuff and you are not audiophile level hobbiist you will like it. I would not say you didnt get anything back. You got setup where at minimum the speakers will work for decades.
- omnimus 2y ago
  Afaik WiiM ultra doesnt have Airplay yet as is new it needs certification. I believe this was the case with other their devices. People who pay for WiiM ultra most likely dont care about Airplay anyway because Airplay 2 devices send lossy AAC 256kbps audio. You dont get streamer for 329usd to send reencoded music there. You get it so it streams from the original sources directly.
  - notatoad 2y ago
    official word from wiim is that the ultra will never have airplay the reason airplay matters so much is that even if you want great audio quality and care about the bitrate of your music, other people in your house don't and just want to make music come out of the speakers. no airplay resigns the device to "nobody else can use it" status.
    - omnimus 2y ago
      I wonder what all the people with Android or Windows are doing? I guess they cant listen to music… What a sad life it has to be.
okdood64 2y ago
> I am no audiophile but Sonos is actually quite expensive vs getting some streamer like Wiim with basic cheap amp and any solid speaker brand - KEF, Elac, Klipsh, Polk… The whole point is Sonos is easy. One product for speakers. Another one for a sub (which most people don't even need). Ok now you're done. And then there's people who really don't have space for all that.
- bradly 2y ago
  KEF LS50 Wireless IIs and Dutch & Dutch 8cs are just a couple example of how the hifi market has embraced embedded streamers. They are excellent options for high quality sound with very low setup.
  - omnimus 2y ago
    You still miss the streamer. The speakers are active with bluetooth reciever but cant play music by themselves. I am not sure if then its not better to go sonos. Either go full modular or nothing. Active speakers are not popular exactly because its usually the amp that dies and then your speakers die with it. Then again you can look for wiim mini packaged with active speakers - they have colab/packages like this. I recently got wiim+edifier [1] in sale for 130usd and its shockingly good combo for fraction of sonos (especially since its stereo). [1] https://a.co/d/12SwuBQ https://a.co/d/12SwuBQ
    - bradly 2y ago
      > You still miss the streamer Are you familar with the models I've referenced? Both include streamers.
      - omnimus 2y ago
        Oh interesting. You are right i always thought they are not streamers and thats why i always dismissed idea of LS50 Wireless. That makes it indeed a lot more interesting if you are $$$ and dont really care if they one day stop software support.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dmazzoni 2y ago

They're not the only good speakers these days, though.' When they came out, there was nothing else that had their combination of sound quality and app features. Before their new app, the competition had basically caught up, Sonos was only marginally better in a few ways. With their new app, I'd never recommend Sonos.

hijklmnopq 2y ago
Who actually uses the app? I only used it for setup. My Era 300 works great and ive never touched the app. Also what brands make speakers that sound just as good for the price and simplicity of setup? Asking legitimately not a jab.
- jajko 2y ago
  I bought recently Samsung HW-Q990D, generally better rated than similarly priced Sonos. Had a bit of mental resistance with the Samsung+audio pair, I am more a Sennheiser type of person. Sound is fine, not hifi just a notch below, but good hifi surround is a 10k thingie. They cost 500-800 in Europe, much less than Sonos surround+sub solutions. No issues with connectivity, connect via eArc with TV without issues and starts with it, bluetooth with both Samsung and Apple OK too. Have some extra features when paired with Samsung TVs. One detail I love - extra bass control on remote, so I can move it down easily during late night watching (low frequencies travel better through walls). I like them a lot and run Spotify from phone on them all the time.