4 ms·

It would indeed be nice if these things were introduced as “let’s try a new thing and then choose to accept or reject it later, based on results”, rather than “

by jl6 2y ago

It would indeed be nice if these things were introduced as “let’s try a new thing and then choose to accept or reject it later, based on results”, rather than “we have determined there is only one correct way of thinking about this topic, and if you don’t like it, you’re a Nazi”.

UncleMeat 2y ago
I suppose I would ask where you've seen or heard this sort of ultimatum about Latinx.
- dolni 2y ago
  Isn't it interesting that your response here is questioning and perhaps dismissive? If a minority were sharing their perspective about whatever their lived experience was with regards to racism, would you respond this way? I'll answer that: no, you wouldn't. Which very quickly lifts the curtain. The movement is not about empathy or understanding. It's about empathy and understanding for people you deem worthy of receiving it.
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    I really don't understand how this relates.
    - dolni 2y ago
      Maybe that is the problem.
  - btreecat 2y ago
    > If a minority were sharing their perspective about whatever their lived experience was with regards to racism, would you respond this way? If a small group of people told me they actually experienced flight under only human power, no mechanical assistance. Would it be right to take that claim at face value? I'll answer that: no, it wouldn't. If you're going to ignore plausibility entirely, then yeah I suppose all statements deserve equal consideration. However... If it is the case that some stamens are more plausible than others maybe it's an effective heuristic to be skeptical of implausible claims.
    - dolni 2y ago
      The number of people making the claim is not small. You probably just cut all the people out of your life who disagree with you. That is the liberal way, these days. Donald Trump, among the worst presidents the US ever had, won the 2024 election. This kind of nonsense was absolutely a factor.
      - btreecat 2y ago
        By definition, a minority group isn't the majority. So it's at least less than half. A non-small amount of people claim the earth is flat. Does a personal attack make you feel better about yourself, your situation in life? If that "kind of nonsense" was a factor, show us in the numbers where it made an impact. I got time, don't cop out, cough it up.
- jl6 2y ago
  Sure, for example, this guy and his paper: https://x.com/mfrmarcel/status/1850899388165693916 https://x.com/mfrmarcel/status/1850899388165693916 “Latinx” is presented uncritically as “inclusive”, and the people who don’t like it are smeared as “queerphobic”. This is academia at its most tone-deaf and ignorant. If he actually spoke to some Latino people he would quickly discover that the reasons for the backlash have approximately zero to do with “queerphobia”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx
  - imphatic 2y ago
    Can you please bridge how your comment "and if you don’t like it, you’re a Nazi" is in any way connected to this tweet about a researcher saying the usage of the phrase "latinx" reduced latino support for Democrats? Another person is asking basically "why are people so quick to dismiss claims of aggressive wokeness policing" and this is why. Because it is always so much exaggeration about the topic coming from these claims.
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    That's an egregious misrepresentation. The authors of that paper surveyed Latinos, found that those who disliked the term 'latinx' had moved toward voting for Trump between 2020 and 2024, and that those most likely to move were also most likely to express antipathy toward LGBT people. You say the academics should have talked to some Latino people, and they did - n = ~2000. Are you saying that they should not have reported their results because you dislike what they imply?
    - zahlman 2y ago
      >The authors of that paper surveyed Latinos, found that those who disliked the term 'latinx' had moved toward voting for Trump between 2020 and 2024 It's strange for the author to distinguish "those who dislike the term" from those who don't, considering that the term is overwhelmingly unpopular (https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/09/12/how-well-known-is-latinx-among-u-s-hispanics-and-who-uses-it/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/09/12/ho...).

by jl6 2y ago

UncleMeat 2y ago

I suppose I would ask where you've seen or heard this sort of ultimatum about Latinx.

dolni 2y ago
Isn't it interesting that your response here is questioning and perhaps dismissive? If a minority were sharing their perspective about whatever their lived experience was with regards to racism, would you respond this way? I'll answer that: no, you wouldn't. Which very quickly lifts the curtain. The movement is not about empathy or understanding. It's about empathy and understanding for people you deem worthy of receiving it.
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  I really don't understand how this relates.
  - dolni 2y ago
    Maybe that is the problem.
- btreecat 2y ago
  > If a minority were sharing their perspective about whatever their lived experience was with regards to racism, would you respond this way? If a small group of people told me they actually experienced flight under only human power, no mechanical assistance. Would it be right to take that claim at face value? I'll answer that: no, it wouldn't. If you're going to ignore plausibility entirely, then yeah I suppose all statements deserve equal consideration. However... If it is the case that some stamens are more plausible than others maybe it's an effective heuristic to be skeptical of implausible claims.
  - dolni 2y ago
    The number of people making the claim is not small. You probably just cut all the people out of your life who disagree with you. That is the liberal way, these days. Donald Trump, among the worst presidents the US ever had, won the 2024 election. This kind of nonsense was absolutely a factor.
    - btreecat 2y ago
      By definition, a minority group isn't the majority. So it's at least less than half. A non-small amount of people claim the earth is flat. Does a personal attack make you feel better about yourself, your situation in life? If that "kind of nonsense" was a factor, show us in the numbers where it made an impact. I got time, don't cop out, cough it up.
jl6 2y ago
Sure, for example, this guy and his paper: https://x.com/mfrmarcel/status/1850899388165693916 https://x.com/mfrmarcel/status/1850899388165693916 “Latinx” is presented uncritically as “inclusive”, and the people who don’t like it are smeared as “queerphobic”. This is academia at its most tone-deaf and ignorant. If he actually spoke to some Latino people he would quickly discover that the reasons for the backlash have approximately zero to do with “queerphobia”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx
- imphatic 2y ago
  Can you please bridge how your comment "and if you don’t like it, you’re a Nazi" is in any way connected to this tweet about a researcher saying the usage of the phrase "latinx" reduced latino support for Democrats? Another person is asking basically "why are people so quick to dismiss claims of aggressive wokeness policing" and this is why. Because it is always so much exaggeration about the topic coming from these claims.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  That's an egregious misrepresentation. The authors of that paper surveyed Latinos, found that those who disliked the term 'latinx' had moved toward voting for Trump between 2020 and 2024, and that those most likely to move were also most likely to express antipathy toward LGBT people. You say the academics should have talked to some Latino people, and they did - n = ~2000. Are you saying that they should not have reported their results because you dislike what they imply?
  - zahlman 2y ago
    >The authors of that paper surveyed Latinos, found that those who disliked the term 'latinx' had moved toward voting for Trump between 2020 and 2024 It's strange for the author to distinguish "those who dislike the term" from those who don't, considering that the term is overwhelmingly unpopular (https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/09/12/how-well-known-is-latinx-among-u-s-hispanics-and-who-uses-it/ https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/09/12/ho...).