4 ms·

Generally the reaction is not to minorities(non-white, is what I am assuming you mean) but to people from outside of a group trying to tell a group what words t

Generally the reaction is not to minorities(non-white, is what I am assuming you mean) but to people from outside of a group trying to tell a group what words to use i.e. LatinX. An aside: If someone who is white is talking to the Spanish speaking community, would they be considered a minority? If so, then the parent premise would hold true.

spondylosaurus 2y ago
I mean any kind of minority, although I would generally say "marginalized group" instead of "minority." But this is HN, so trying to stick to more commonly-known terminology :P I also think the "latinx" thing is overblown and generally used as an "anti-woke" shibboleth by people who want to get mad at something. Literally never seen an Anglophone yelling at a Spanish speaker about it before, only queer Spanish speakers who use it to refer to themselves. Also worth noting that there have been other variations that predate "latinx" and have seen more widespread usage. There's "latine," and "latin@", although the former is both easier to write and to pronounce.
- svieira 2y ago
  > Literally never seen an Anglophone yelling at a Spanish speaker about it before, only queer Spanish speakers who use it to refer to themselves. You and I move in different circles. I was definitely running into "normal" Spanish speakers for the past few years who's awakening experience with "wokeness" was seeing the word "Latinx" on some HR form and being told that the reason was "for Hispanic comfort" ... which every single one of them found gaslighting in the extreme (since none of them liked it, even a little bit).
  - dalmo3 2y ago
    > seeing the word "Latinx" on some HR form Yes, very common in job application forms. I don't find it offensive per se, but it makes me wonder if this is the kind of company where bullshit reigns in the workplace.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - spondylosaurus 2y ago
    Ah, HR... and here I thought we were talking about real people! ;) I've been condescended by (generally well-meaning) corporate diversity initiatives on many occasions, but I think it's hard to take that as a statement about progressive movements in general. Corporate shit tends to be toothless and cringey across the board.
    - svieira 2y ago
      > I think it's hard to take that as a statement about progressive movements in general True, but remember that many people's experience of any movement will be through an interface that is both lossy and hostile (whether it be government, corporate, clan leadership, what have you). "The effects that this had were well beyond the scope of what we intended" is so old it's in the Old Testament (but there as an answer-in-advance): > These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen, and to run before his chariots; and he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plow his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his courtiers. He will take one-tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and his courtiers. He will take your male and female slaves, and the best of your cattle and donkeys, and put them to his work. He will take one-tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves; but the Lord will not answer you in that day. ~ 1 Samuel Chapter 8 via https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%208%2C1%20Samuel%2028&version=NRSVCE https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%208%...
  - jejones3141 2y ago
    Yes. I suspect that the term "Latinx" was invented by some gringx.
    - zimpenfish 2y ago
      > Yes. I suspect that the term "Latinx" was invented by some gringx. [0] suggests otherwise. [0] https://diversity.sonoma.edu/sites/diversity/files/history_of_x_in_latinx_salinas_and_lozano_2021_s_.pdf https://diversity.sonoma.edu/sites/diversity/files/history_o...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
UncleMeat 2y ago
Latinx is a great example of the overreaction. Some people use this term. It was briefly catching on among groups with power, but ultimately never did. But it is spoken about like Harris was saying "latinx" in all of her campaign videos and that people are being fired for using "latino" or "latina" or even "latin." Ultimately, I think it is important that groups are able to try things and then later determine that they weren't the best idea. Shouldn't this be ceelbrated?
- jl6 2y ago
  It would indeed be nice if these things were introduced as “let’s try a new thing and then choose to accept or reject it later, based on results”, rather than “we have determined there is only one correct way of thinking about this topic, and if you don’t like it, you’re a Nazi”.
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    I suppose I would ask where you've seen or heard this sort of ultimatum about Latinx.
    - dolni 2y ago
      Isn't it interesting that your response here is questioning and perhaps dismissive? If a minority were sharing their perspective about whatever their lived experience was with regards to racism, would you respond this way? I'll answer that: no, you wouldn't. Which very quickly lifts the curtain. The movement is not about empathy or understanding. It's about empathy and understanding for people you deem worthy of receiving it.
      - UncleMeat 2y ago
        I really don't understand how this relates.
        dolni 2y ago

spondylosaurus 2y ago

I mean any kind of minority, although I would generally say "marginalized group" instead of "minority." But this is HN, so trying to stick to more commonly-known terminology :P I also think the "latinx" thing is overblown and generally used as an "anti-woke" shibboleth by people who want to get mad at something. Literally never seen an Anglophone yelling at a Spanish speaker about it before, only queer Spanish speakers who use it to refer to themselves. Also worth noting that there have been other variations that predate "latinx" and have seen more widespread usage. There's "latine," and "latin@", although the former is both easier to write and to pronounce.

svieira 2y ago
> Literally never seen an Anglophone yelling at a Spanish speaker about it before, only queer Spanish speakers who use it to refer to themselves. You and I move in different circles. I was definitely running into "normal" Spanish speakers for the past few years who's awakening experience with "wokeness" was seeing the word "Latinx" on some HR form and being told that the reason was "for Hispanic comfort" ... which every single one of them found gaslighting in the extreme (since none of them liked it, even a little bit).
- dalmo3 2y ago
  > seeing the word "Latinx" on some HR form Yes, very common in job application forms. I don't find it offensive per se, but it makes me wonder if this is the kind of company where bullshit reigns in the workplace.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- spondylosaurus 2y ago
  Ah, HR... and here I thought we were talking about real people! ;) I've been condescended by (generally well-meaning) corporate diversity initiatives on many occasions, but I think it's hard to take that as a statement about progressive movements in general. Corporate shit tends to be toothless and cringey across the board.
  - svieira 2y ago
    > I think it's hard to take that as a statement about progressive movements in general True, but remember that many people's experience of any movement will be through an interface that is both lossy and hostile (whether it be government, corporate, clan leadership, what have you). "The effects that this had were well beyond the scope of what we intended" is so old it's in the Old Testament (but there as an answer-in-advance): > These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen, and to run before his chariots; and he will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and some to plow his ground and to reap his harvest, and to make his implements of war and the equipment of his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive orchards and give them to his courtiers. He will take one-tenth of your grain and of your vineyards and give it to his officers and his courtiers. He will take your male and female slaves, and the best of your cattle and donkeys, and put them to his work. He will take one-tenth of your flocks, and you shall be his slaves. And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves; but the Lord will not answer you in that day. ~ 1 Samuel Chapter 8 via https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%208%2C1%20Samuel%2028&version=NRSVCE https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%208%...
- jejones3141 2y ago
  Yes. I suspect that the term "Latinx" was invented by some gringx.
  - zimpenfish 2y ago
    > Yes. I suspect that the term "Latinx" was invented by some gringx. [0] suggests otherwise. [0] https://diversity.sonoma.edu/sites/diversity/files/history_of_x_in_latinx_salinas_and_lozano_2021_s_.pdf https://diversity.sonoma.edu/sites/diversity/files/history_o...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

UncleMeat 2y ago

Latinx is a great example of the overreaction. Some people use this term. It was briefly catching on among groups with power, but ultimately never did. But it is spoken about like Harris was saying "latinx" in all of her campaign videos and that people are being fired for using "latino" or "latina" or even "latin." Ultimately, I think it is important that groups are able to try things and then later determine that they weren't the best idea. Shouldn't this be ceelbrated?

jl6 2y ago
It would indeed be nice if these things were introduced as “let’s try a new thing and then choose to accept or reject it later, based on results”, rather than “we have determined there is only one correct way of thinking about this topic, and if you don’t like it, you’re a Nazi”.
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  I suppose I would ask where you've seen or heard this sort of ultimatum about Latinx.
  - dolni 2y ago
    Isn't it interesting that your response here is questioning and perhaps dismissive? If a minority were sharing their perspective about whatever their lived experience was with regards to racism, would you respond this way? I'll answer that: no, you wouldn't. Which very quickly lifts the curtain. The movement is not about empathy or understanding. It's about empathy and understanding for people you deem worthy of receiving it.
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      I really don't understand how this relates.
      - dolni 2y ago