4 ms·

This is a ridiculous comment. I don't know if you've noticed but a lot of what's happening in the entire western world politically is a result of the backlash

This is a ridiculous comment. I don't know if you've noticed but a lot of what's happening in the entire western world politically is a result of the backlash against wokeness and leftist economics. Without wokeness there is no Trump, and the far right in Europe would still be marginal. Edit - it's funny, just yesterday I was listening to a podcast where Peter Thiel was lamenting the lack of introspection on the left. Lots of comments proving it correct.

p4bl0 2y ago
Are you accusing the people who fight against Trump's politics and who vote against him to have put him in power? Also, what "leftist economics" are you talking about? Now this is a ridiculous comment. It reads just like "antifascists are the new fascists" discourses. It's absurd.
- daseiner1 2y ago
  When a vocal, extreme minority of the left drives things towards absurdity, there is likely to be an acute reactionary response.
- dismalaf 2y ago
  A bunch of people who previously voted left are now voting right. Ask yourself why.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - tinyplanets 2y ago
    Massive disinformation campaigns that have occurred over the past 10 to 15 years.
- normalaccess 2y ago
  Trump is the "solution" to the problem of militant radical Neo-Marxism or whatever you want to call it. He exist in a world where the Overton window sits comfortably over the destruction of the entire western world by the hand of communists bent on burning down the world to rule over the ashes. When everything is bent into identity politics, for good or ill those that can manage their image will thrive. And Trump is very good at managing the Trump brand.
  - EarthAmbassador 2y ago
    This isn’t the Cold War and ideology is for simpletons. I may have to write a book to educate people about how the world really works. Thanks for the motivation.
    - normalaccess 2y ago
      You're welcome. But until then your comment has nothing of value for me to digest that is relevant to the conversation.
  - p4bl0 2y ago
    > He exist in a world where the Overton window sits comfortably over the destruction of the entire western world by the hand of communists bent on burning down the world to rule over the ashes. In which alternative reality is that happening? Where in the western world are communists in power?
    - normalaccess 2y ago
      I'm amused that it's so hard to see but as a single example take the current situation happening in the UK. There have been organized child human trafficking rings that have been allowed to operate with complete impunity due to the race of the participants. If you speak out about the injustice you are deemed a far right extremist and a raciest and given a harsher sentence than the pedophiles that are raping children. Now you might see that as unrelated but In my option it's exactly the sort of thing that is emblematic of the radical left being in power. There is an inversion of justice to correct for the "demon of whiteness".
- TinkersW 2y ago
  Because they are helping Trump, their behavior is often so insane it drives people into his camp who might have otherwise been somewhere in the middle. Look at the surveys done of swing voters in the last election, they biggest single item was social issues such as trans. Also just read the linked article(seems reasonable enough, though I don't necessarily agree with all of it), and the moralistic responses attacking him personally, instead of responding by pointing with the part they disagree with, this is a logical fallacy.
contagiousflow 2y ago
What big leftist economics policies have been enacted in the West recently?
- dismalaf 2y ago
  Massive expansionist post-Covid fiscal policy and QE that created the inflationary crisis. Mass immigration (yes immigration is an economic policy).
  - peterpost2 2y ago
    Immigration was kicked off long before recent times and used to largely be a right-wing policy.
    - dismalaf 2y ago
      The rate of immigration and our ability to assimilate immigrants matters.
      - peterpost2 2y ago
        That is not a relevant answer to my statement.
  - tpm 2y ago
    Immigration is not leftist, it degrades value of labor. It's liberal policy - in the US this is conflated with left, but elsewhere liberal stands for individualist policies, while left is more or less socialist, the exact opposite.
    - petsfed 2y ago
      Certain kinds of leftist are anti-immigration. But anarchists and those in favor of international communism are aggressively (sometimes militantly) opposed to the concept of national borders or any meaningful restrictions on the movements of people.
peterpost2 2y ago
Same for yours, You can hardly call the free market and privatization policies that the western europe has been going through these last three decades "Leftish economics"
MrMcCall 2y ago
Without wokeness, Trump et al would've already steamrolled us. Being woke is to be aware of inequalities between ethnicities, religions, and classes. Being woke is to be aware of the fact that the planet is overheating due to our unfettered capitalism. You calling something ridiculous is what is ridiculous, friend. Yeah, what the rich need is more tax breaks {sarcasm}. The world is full of people too stupid to know how stupid they are. They need to wake the fuck up.
EarthAmbassador 2y ago
This comment is historically and intellectually uninformed, i.e., devoid of understanding about the antecedents and relationships between what is driving todays rise of the right, which is a populist counterrevolution to the 60s and beyond’s postmodernism-fueled culture wars, which elevated the marginalized and women, and served as a strategic distraction while the elite locked in wealth extract ion from below and minority rule by manufacturing a pervasive epistemic crisis.
petsfed 2y ago
I think this is a bit reductive. Trump came to power on the back of a populist anger at the wealthy elite and the consequences of neo-liberal economics (which is pretty fucking far from e.g. Marx. Regardless of the entirety of his meaning, certainly some of Alex Jones' hatred of "globalists" springs from the fact that they outsource jobs to where the labor is cheaper). Insofar as "wokeness" factors into Trump's power, it was to harness that anger and direct it at some wealthy elites, but not others. That is, he claimed that these wealthy elites are being performatively sanctimonious and are trying to rob you of your freedom, money, power, etc, but those wealthy elites have your best interests at heart. Even though the two wealthy elites are kissing cousins (to whit, Gavin Newsom and Donald Trump Jr. both engaged in a committed long-term relationships with the same woman, albeit at different times) and don't actually care either way. "Woke" in the traditional sense is realizing that no matter what they say, both groups are wealthy elites, and that neither actually has the interests of anyone but the elites at heart. There are definitely moments of "are we really prioritizing this right now?" with modern social justice movements. But even on the subject of trans kids, the question for me is not "are we encouraging the wrong ideas around gender?" but rather "are we doing everything that's necessary to keep kids from committing suicide?" The other day there was a post about fascists vs. rakes, and I really do feel like the the discussion around wokeness comes down to a similar misunderstanding about the intentions and moral principles of the two sides of the discussion.

p4bl0 2y ago

Are you accusing the people who fight against Trump's politics and who vote against him to have put him in power? Also, what "leftist economics" are you talking about? Now this is a ridiculous comment. It reads just like "antifascists are the new fascists" discourses. It's absurd.

daseiner1 2y ago
When a vocal, extreme minority of the left drives things towards absurdity, there is likely to be an acute reactionary response.
dismalaf 2y ago
A bunch of people who previously voted left are now voting right. Ask yourself why.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  [flagged]
- tinyplanets 2y ago
  Massive disinformation campaigns that have occurred over the past 10 to 15 years.
normalaccess 2y ago
Trump is the "solution" to the problem of militant radical Neo-Marxism or whatever you want to call it. He exist in a world where the Overton window sits comfortably over the destruction of the entire western world by the hand of communists bent on burning down the world to rule over the ashes. When everything is bent into identity politics, for good or ill those that can manage their image will thrive. And Trump is very good at managing the Trump brand.
- EarthAmbassador 2y ago
  This isn’t the Cold War and ideology is for simpletons. I may have to write a book to educate people about how the world really works. Thanks for the motivation.
  - normalaccess 2y ago
    You're welcome. But until then your comment has nothing of value for me to digest that is relevant to the conversation.
- p4bl0 2y ago
  > He exist in a world where the Overton window sits comfortably over the destruction of the entire western world by the hand of communists bent on burning down the world to rule over the ashes. In which alternative reality is that happening? Where in the western world are communists in power?
  - normalaccess 2y ago
    I'm amused that it's so hard to see but as a single example take the current situation happening in the UK. There have been organized child human trafficking rings that have been allowed to operate with complete impunity due to the race of the participants. If you speak out about the injustice you are deemed a far right extremist and a raciest and given a harsher sentence than the pedophiles that are raping children. Now you might see that as unrelated but In my option it's exactly the sort of thing that is emblematic of the radical left being in power. There is an inversion of justice to correct for the "demon of whiteness".
TinkersW 2y ago
Because they are helping Trump, their behavior is often so insane it drives people into his camp who might have otherwise been somewhere in the middle. Look at the surveys done of swing voters in the last election, they biggest single item was social issues such as trans. Also just read the linked article(seems reasonable enough, though I don't necessarily agree with all of it), and the moralistic responses attacking him personally, instead of responding by pointing with the part they disagree with, this is a logical fallacy.

contagiousflow 2y ago

What big leftist economics policies have been enacted in the West recently?

dismalaf 2y ago
Massive expansionist post-Covid fiscal policy and QE that created the inflationary crisis. Mass immigration (yes immigration is an economic policy).
- peterpost2 2y ago
  Immigration was kicked off long before recent times and used to largely be a right-wing policy.
  - dismalaf 2y ago
    The rate of immigration and our ability to assimilate immigrants matters.
    - peterpost2 2y ago
      That is not a relevant answer to my statement.
- tpm 2y ago
  Immigration is not leftist, it degrades value of labor. It's liberal policy - in the US this is conflated with left, but elsewhere liberal stands for individualist policies, while left is more or less socialist, the exact opposite.
  - petsfed 2y ago
    Certain kinds of leftist are anti-immigration. But anarchists and those in favor of international communism are aggressively (sometimes militantly) opposed to the concept of national borders or any meaningful restrictions on the movements of people.

peterpost2 2y ago

Same for yours, You can hardly call the free market and privatization policies that the western europe has been going through these last three decades "Leftish economics"

MrMcCall 2y ago

Without wokeness, Trump et al would've already steamrolled us. Being woke is to be aware of inequalities between ethnicities, religions, and classes. Being woke is to be aware of the fact that the planet is overheating due to our unfettered capitalism. You calling something ridiculous is what is ridiculous, friend. Yeah, what the rich need is more tax breaks {sarcasm}. The world is full of people too stupid to know how stupid they are. They need to wake the fuck up.

EarthAmbassador 2y ago

This comment is historically and intellectually uninformed, i.e., devoid of understanding about the antecedents and relationships between what is driving todays rise of the right, which is a populist counterrevolution to the 60s and beyond’s postmodernism-fueled culture wars, which elevated the marginalized and women, and served as a strategic distraction while the elite locked in wealth extract ion from below and minority rule by manufacturing a pervasive epistemic crisis.

petsfed 2y ago

I think this is a bit reductive. Trump came to power on the back of a populist anger at the wealthy elite and the consequences of neo-liberal economics (which is pretty fucking far from e.g. Marx. Regardless of the entirety of his meaning, certainly some of Alex Jones' hatred of "globalists" springs from the fact that they outsource jobs to where the labor is cheaper). Insofar as "wokeness" factors into Trump's power, it was to harness that anger and direct it at some wealthy elites, but not others. That is, he claimed that these wealthy elites are being performatively sanctimonious and are trying to rob you of your freedom, money, power, etc, but those wealthy elites have your best interests at heart. Even though the two wealthy elites are kissing cousins (to whit, Gavin Newsom and Donald Trump Jr. both engaged in a committed long-term relationships with the same woman, albeit at different times) and don't actually care either way. "Woke" in the traditional sense is realizing that no matter what they say, both groups are wealthy elites, and that neither actually has the interests of anyone but the elites at heart. There are definitely moments of "are we really prioritizing this right now?" with modern social justice movements. But even on the subject of trans kids, the question for me is not "are we encouraging the wrong ideas around gender?" but rather "are we doing everything that's necessary to keep kids from committing suicide?" The other day there was a post about fascists vs. rakes, and I really do feel like the the discussion around wokeness comes down to a similar misunderstanding about the intentions and moral principles of the two sides of the discussion.