4 ms·

If you could move all WP plugins & plugin developers to a different domain at once, sure, there's no problem! But unless you have a magic wand, this won't happe

by Timon3 2y ago

If you could move all WP plugins & plugin developers to a different domain at once, sure, there's no problem! But unless you have a magic wand, this won't happen. Then the question is: can you move enough at once to clear the network effect? If you cannot do that, every developer that moved with you potentially just lost their livelihood. That's the crux of it. There's no technical issue to solve here, it's purely a social and economical one.

gitaarik 2y ago
Well it can still go gradually. First move the plugins, one by one. Then update the WP sourcecode to the new domain. Then update existing installations.
- Timon3 2y ago
  You are still ignoring the point I've brought up repeatedly: those who move first have the most to lose. You act like moving gradually has no danger for the plugin authors. You've moved 5% of plugins over. Whoops, Matt stole their listings, and since you didn't reach critical mass nobody uses your WP fork which points to your new plugin directory. You've just wiped out the livelihoods of 5% of plugin developers.
  - gitaarik 2y ago
    I don't understand, you mean in the case that most people don't patch their WordPress installation, and keep getting updates from WordPress.org? You have to move all installations to the new domain, but you don't have to do that in 1 day. You can create bots scanning the internet for WP installations and mail the webmaster and inform them about the corruption at WordPress and give them info how to patch their instance. Matt would have to clone all the plugins and keep them up to date by copying the plugins from the new domain. But he would be risking a lawsuit for each plugin he does this with. Seems like a lot of work with a lot of risk.
    - Timon3 2y ago
      > You have to move all installations to the new domain, but you don't have to do that in 1 day. YES, YOU DO! At least you have to move the majority of all installations day 1. I don't know why you keep repeating this. Matt stealing a plugin isn't a theoretical issue. He has already done it. It has happened. I'm not constructing some unlikely scenario, I'm telling you what already occurred. WP plugins are GPL licensed, so there's no legal risk if he doesn't behave incredibly stupidly. You keep throwing technical solutions against a social and economical issue. It doesn't work. There's no technical solution here. Every plugin you move gradually is a livelihood you potentially destroyed. Can you at least acknowledge this?
      - gitaarik 2y ago
        Oh yeah ok, I guess I did forget a bit the important detail that most WP plugin developers are making money from a subscription plan on the WordPress.org site. So yeah their income is basically tied to that domain name. Yeah ok, that sucks pretty hard. Ok, then what about DDOSing wp.org during the entire transition? Just an idea, maybe a bit crazy.
bigiain 2y ago
Not that I think it's "the right thing to do", but WPEngine could almost certainly "move enough at once to clear the network effect". They host a _lot_ of sites. They were forced by Matt to maintain a mirror of the .org theme/plugin repos. They could very easily come up with a list of plugins that'll allow 99% or 99.9% or more of WP sites to work. They 100% have the technical skills and the cashflow and the business case to do this. They could very easily build and deploy this, and donate it to a properly managed foundation - the way Wordpress.org _ought_ to be. My guess is the only reason they haven't done it (or gone public with it if they're already building it) is because they're waiting for the lawsuit to give them most of Matt's and Automattic's money first.

by Timon3 2y ago

gitaarik 2y ago

Well it can still go gradually. First move the plugins, one by one. Then update the WP sourcecode to the new domain. Then update existing installations.

Timon3 2y ago
You are still ignoring the point I've brought up repeatedly: those who move first have the most to lose. You act like moving gradually has no danger for the plugin authors. You've moved 5% of plugins over. Whoops, Matt stole their listings, and since you didn't reach critical mass nobody uses your WP fork which points to your new plugin directory. You've just wiped out the livelihoods of 5% of plugin developers.
- gitaarik 2y ago
  I don't understand, you mean in the case that most people don't patch their WordPress installation, and keep getting updates from WordPress.org? You have to move all installations to the new domain, but you don't have to do that in 1 day. You can create bots scanning the internet for WP installations and mail the webmaster and inform them about the corruption at WordPress and give them info how to patch their instance. Matt would have to clone all the plugins and keep them up to date by copying the plugins from the new domain. But he would be risking a lawsuit for each plugin he does this with. Seems like a lot of work with a lot of risk.
  - Timon3 2y ago
    > You have to move all installations to the new domain, but you don't have to do that in 1 day. YES, YOU DO! At least you have to move the majority of all installations day 1. I don't know why you keep repeating this. Matt stealing a plugin isn't a theoretical issue. He has already done it. It has happened. I'm not constructing some unlikely scenario, I'm telling you what already occurred. WP plugins are GPL licensed, so there's no legal risk if he doesn't behave incredibly stupidly. You keep throwing technical solutions against a social and economical issue. It doesn't work. There's no technical solution here. Every plugin you move gradually is a livelihood you potentially destroyed. Can you at least acknowledge this?
    - gitaarik 2y ago
      Oh yeah ok, I guess I did forget a bit the important detail that most WP plugin developers are making money from a subscription plan on the WordPress.org site. So yeah their income is basically tied to that domain name. Yeah ok, that sucks pretty hard. Ok, then what about DDOSing wp.org during the entire transition? Just an idea, maybe a bit crazy.

bigiain 2y ago

Not that I think it's "the right thing to do", but WPEngine could almost certainly "move enough at once to clear the network effect". They host a _lot_ of sites. They were forced by Matt to maintain a mirror of the .org theme/plugin repos. They could very easily come up with a list of plugins that'll allow 99% or 99.9% or more of WP sites to work. They 100% have the technical skills and the cashflow and the business case to do this. They could very easily build and deploy this, and donate it to a properly managed foundation - the way Wordpress.org _ought_ to be. My guess is the only reason they haven't done it (or gone public with it if they're already building it) is because they're waiting for the lawsuit to give them most of Matt's and Automattic's money first.