4 ms·

The reason why this will never happen is simply due to things like DRM. We right now have ENCRYPTED signal going from our computer to our displays, not just co

The reason why this will never happen is simply due to things like DRM. We right now have ENCRYPTED signal going from our computer to our displays, not just computers, but phones too SIMPLY to prevent people from dumping raw data. All of that extra processing done just so you're allowed to for ex: watch netflix with a resolution higher than 720p. Then comically there's Chinese capture cards that you plug your GPU into, use mirroring mode and completely bypass it. DRM is just one example, there's many more motivations such as preventing paid apps / pay for currency games from having these things given for free. This is the primary reason why iOS devices make significantly more money than android as it's near impossible to pirate / hack / crack for an average user.

maniacwhat 2y ago
Perhaps it imposes some restrictions, like using TPMs, but I don't think it excludes what the author is suggesting, which is the ability to run as root. Case in point: every popular desktop PC let's you run as root, and also watch DRM content. They aren't totally mutually exclusive.
- margana 2y ago
  You can't play 4K Netflix on Linux, period. Because of DRM. Before you say "this is just a Netflix issue" - you can't play 4K Prime Video on Linux either. Nor 4K Disney+. And many other services. Piracy is the only way to watch most 4K streaming content on Linux. You may have the most capable and up-to-date hardware on the market, you still can't.
  - tombert 2y ago
    Yeah, that realization is what killed my attempt at replacing my Nvidia Shield TV with my home-built SteamOS box. I got everything "working" in the most technical sense, but I was limited to 720p on Hulu, and that ended up driving us crazy. I know that the box is capable of streaming 4K video just fine, because I was able to stream my 4K Blu-ray rips from my Jellyfin server just fine, so this limitation is purely artificial. I did do some experimentation with VMs and emulation and whatnot, but I never got anything that worked consistently enough to use full-time, so I bit the bullet and plugged my Nvidia Shield TV back in.
beefnugs 2y ago
There is nothing stopping anyone from selling an HSM (hardware security module) that can decode their protected video without fisting the control into the computer itself
- kachapopopow 2y ago
  These are sort of prevented by signing the hardware, you have a module on your computer that creates a web request identifying that this module is present.
cakealert 2y ago
I suspect DRM will eventually be self defeating. For example, I prefer to torrent content just so that I can get stuff to play using my media player of choice (and the instant seeks) without any hassle. Most normal people probably aren't even aware this is an option. But with cryptocurrencies normalizing it's only a matter of time before a paid piracy service emerges that is both cheaper, simpler and better than Netflix or any other streamer. Some arguably already have. DRM was being broken for years without even a monetary incentive, with one it won't stand a chance.
- bobdvb 2y ago
  I'm a senior person who looks after content protection and anti-piracy at a major streaming company. The idealism of those who want to see the demise of DRM doesn't actually hold up in the face of reality. Even when we remove restrictions and give global access to content, for free, pirates don't give up. One of the reasons is that many pirate sites get ad revenue, piracy is a business for many folk and they get the benefit of not paying for the most expensive part. They also don't have legal/regulatory compliance, taxes and will often operate their infrastructure using stolen credit cards or accounts (we can see this). Then you have people who are selling legitimately and trying to provide the best service for customers, but who have to pay for the content, competing with people who don't have any such responsibilities. So, customers take the cheap deal. Some folk are also under the assumption that streaming services are money grabbing. Except when you actually look, most streaming services are running at a loss, or barely profitable. I'm just working to protect our company and reduce losses, ultimately I am not preventing people getting access to fresh food or water. I am protecting premium goods from being illegitimately exploited and protecting the jobs of my colleagues when we're already under significant cost pressures. One reason I post about these things on the internet is in the hope that one day we might have a constructive dialogue about how to balance freedoms AND enable commerce. But at the moment we have extremism, libertarian ideals against company lawyers.
  - cakealert 2y ago
    I'm sure you are aware that there are groups (scenes) which break your DRM as a hobby, they sacrifice device keys for 4K HDR content. And they do it for just the reputation. More money than ever flows into piracy these days. Even with complete monolithic control (which is an unlikely objective) over the entire chain from distribution to display there will be a way to obtain good quality output from a hijacked LCD controller if nothing else. There is no win condition for you.
markus_zhang 2y ago
I think in the not too far future, every electronics device will be locked down. Laptops and desktops can be locked down too. The technology is already there. They can also throw in AI for recommendations i.e. lock down users' mind too. Think what this is going to do to the next generation if they start using electronic products from 6. For example, if anyone is interested, check out the computers Chinese governments are using right now. They are basically large mobile phones running some sort of Linux, but the whole thing is locked down. Fortunately things are OK on the commercial side but again it's more and more difficult to root or unlock a device. And now the Western states are following suite, except it's the corporations that are leading the charge. If they achieve this, and wipe out all commercial electronics distributors such as Mouse, then we need another underground railway movement to teach people to scavenge and build computers in that Dark Age. I'm not joking. This could be real. It's already shaping.

maniacwhat 2y ago

Perhaps it imposes some restrictions, like using TPMs, but I don't think it excludes what the author is suggesting, which is the ability to run as root. Case in point: every popular desktop PC let's you run as root, and also watch DRM content. They aren't totally mutually exclusive.

margana 2y ago
You can't play 4K Netflix on Linux, period. Because of DRM. Before you say "this is just a Netflix issue" - you can't play 4K Prime Video on Linux either. Nor 4K Disney+. And many other services. Piracy is the only way to watch most 4K streaming content on Linux. You may have the most capable and up-to-date hardware on the market, you still can't.
- tombert 2y ago
  Yeah, that realization is what killed my attempt at replacing my Nvidia Shield TV with my home-built SteamOS box. I got everything "working" in the most technical sense, but I was limited to 720p on Hulu, and that ended up driving us crazy. I know that the box is capable of streaming 4K video just fine, because I was able to stream my 4K Blu-ray rips from my Jellyfin server just fine, so this limitation is purely artificial. I did do some experimentation with VMs and emulation and whatnot, but I never got anything that worked consistently enough to use full-time, so I bit the bullet and plugged my Nvidia Shield TV back in.

beefnugs 2y ago

There is nothing stopping anyone from selling an HSM (hardware security module) that can decode their protected video without fisting the control into the computer itself

kachapopopow 2y ago
These are sort of prevented by signing the hardware, you have a module on your computer that creates a web request identifying that this module is present.

cakealert 2y ago

I suspect DRM will eventually be self defeating. For example, I prefer to torrent content just so that I can get stuff to play using my media player of choice (and the instant seeks) without any hassle. Most normal people probably aren't even aware this is an option. But with cryptocurrencies normalizing it's only a matter of time before a paid piracy service emerges that is both cheaper, simpler and better than Netflix or any other streamer. Some arguably already have. DRM was being broken for years without even a monetary incentive, with one it won't stand a chance.

bobdvb 2y ago
I'm a senior person who looks after content protection and anti-piracy at a major streaming company. The idealism of those who want to see the demise of DRM doesn't actually hold up in the face of reality. Even when we remove restrictions and give global access to content, for free, pirates don't give up. One of the reasons is that many pirate sites get ad revenue, piracy is a business for many folk and they get the benefit of not paying for the most expensive part. They also don't have legal/regulatory compliance, taxes and will often operate their infrastructure using stolen credit cards or accounts (we can see this). Then you have people who are selling legitimately and trying to provide the best service for customers, but who have to pay for the content, competing with people who don't have any such responsibilities. So, customers take the cheap deal. Some folk are also under the assumption that streaming services are money grabbing. Except when you actually look, most streaming services are running at a loss, or barely profitable. I'm just working to protect our company and reduce losses, ultimately I am not preventing people getting access to fresh food or water. I am protecting premium goods from being illegitimately exploited and protecting the jobs of my colleagues when we're already under significant cost pressures. One reason I post about these things on the internet is in the hope that one day we might have a constructive dialogue about how to balance freedoms AND enable commerce. But at the moment we have extremism, libertarian ideals against company lawyers.
- cakealert 2y ago
  I'm sure you are aware that there are groups (scenes) which break your DRM as a hobby, they sacrifice device keys for 4K HDR content. And they do it for just the reputation. More money than ever flows into piracy these days. Even with complete monolithic control (which is an unlikely objective) over the entire chain from distribution to display there will be a way to obtain good quality output from a hijacked LCD controller if nothing else. There is no win condition for you.

markus_zhang 2y ago

I think in the not too far future, every electronics device will be locked down. Laptops and desktops can be locked down too. The technology is already there. They can also throw in AI for recommendations i.e. lock down users' mind too. Think what this is going to do to the next generation if they start using electronic products from 6. For example, if anyone is interested, check out the computers Chinese governments are using right now. They are basically large mobile phones running some sort of Linux, but the whole thing is locked down. Fortunately things are OK on the commercial side but again it's more and more difficult to root or unlock a device. And now the Western states are following suite, except it's the corporations that are leading the charge. If they achieve this, and wipe out all commercial electronics distributors such as Mouse, then we need another underground railway movement to teach people to scavenge and build computers in that Dark Age. I'm not joking. This could be real. It's already shaping.