4 ms·

"mythz", Merto style apps can always be done in HTML5, CSS, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/br211385.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/l

by barista 14y ago

"mythz", Merto style apps can always be done in HTML5, CSS, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/br211385.aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/br21138... so I am not sure why you say that the cross platform rich initiatives have been killed. More details: http://www.winsupersite.com/blog/supersite-blog-39/windows8/free-microsoft-press-ebook-preview-programming-windows-8-apps-html-css-javascript-143329 http://www.winsupersite.com/blog/supersite-blog-39/windows8/...

mythz 14y ago
"This couldn’t be further from the truth. The use of HTML5 + JavaScript in Windows 8 is about as proprietary as using XAML + .NET." http://dougseven.com/2011/10/24/language-choice-in-windows-8-is-not-about-portability/ http://dougseven.com/2011/10/24/language-choice-in-windows-8... Just because it uses JS doesn't mean its portable! It has proprietary APIS + hooks making it non portable.
- shanselman 14y ago
  That's no different from using HTML5+JavaScript against browser specific APIs or using CSS3 vendor prefixes. Calling external stuff from JavaScript (even if that external thing is Windows itself) is not new and it's not bad that it's not portable any more than writing XUL wasn't portable.
  - tysonjennings 14y ago
    "That's no different from using HTML5+JavaScript against browser specific APIs" Sure it is if those browsers are cross-platform. I doubt the Windows 8 APIs are cross platform.
    - shanselman 14y ago
      PhoneGap, Mobile Safari, window.external.Notify, window.sidebar in Firefox but not Opera, you get the idea.
  - mythz 14y ago
    If there's no equivalent work around it's not portable - simple as that. Proprietary hooks and APIs aren't evil, but suggesting developing for Metro is "open" and portable is wrong. Since you've mentioned it, Mozilla isn't touting to use XUL for "open" cross-browser apps - although XUL itself, unlike anything Metro, is open source and does run cross-platform. Mozilla is even deprecating the use of XUL for its new Firefox OS (Boot to Gecko) in favor of using pure HTML5 instead. Maybe MS can work together with Mozilla and come up with a common API?
    - shanselman 14y ago
      And Boot to Gecko will no doubt use lots of Firefox OS specific stuff just as WebOS does. I'm not defending Windows 8, I'm just pointing out that it's reasonable to use a language (JavaScript) to call out to 3rd party APIs.
    - mythz 14y ago
      >> And Boot to Gecko will no doubt use lots of Firefox OS specific stuff just as WebOS does. Where did you hear that? everything I've heard is the exact opposite: http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/a-deep-dive-into-mozillas-boot-to-gecko-project-20120510/ http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/a-deep-dive-into-mozilla... >> Everything is HTML5 >> The core to the Boot to Gecko project is the web. Everything you see — right down to the power icon and network status information — is generated by and displayed with HTML5. The icons for the apps, the apps themselves, and the notifications the apps generate… all HTML5. Even the Dialer and the Settings for the device are handled this way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS >> Firefox OS (formerly Boot to Gecko, B2G) is an open source operating system in development by Mozilla that aims to support HTML5 apps written using "open Web" technologies rather than platform-specific native APIs. The idea is essentially to have all user-accessible software running on the phone be a Web app that uses advanced HTML5 techniques and device APIs to access the phone's hardware directly via JavaScript.[2] It initially targets Android-compatible smartphones. The difference is Firefox OS is building as much as they can (everything?) with HTML5, Whilst all Metro's advanced functionality is hidden behind proprietary APIs - The comparison of "open-ess" between the 2 is not even close.
  - j_s 14y ago
    The point being made by mythz to barista was that Metro's HTML5 + JavaScript was not portable (cross-platform), and you clearly agree. The only one talking about 'bad' is you saying it's 'not bad'.
    - shanselman 14y ago
      Point taken.

by barista 14y ago

mythz 14y ago

"This couldn’t be further from the truth. The use of HTML5 + JavaScript in Windows 8 is about as proprietary as using XAML + .NET." http://dougseven.com/2011/10/24/language-choice-in-windows-8-is-not-about-portability/ http://dougseven.com/2011/10/24/language-choice-in-windows-8... Just because it uses JS doesn't mean its portable! It has proprietary APIS + hooks making it non portable.

shanselman 14y ago
That's no different from using HTML5+JavaScript against browser specific APIs or using CSS3 vendor prefixes. Calling external stuff from JavaScript (even if that external thing is Windows itself) is not new and it's not bad that it's not portable any more than writing XUL wasn't portable.
- tysonjennings 14y ago
  "That's no different from using HTML5+JavaScript against browser specific APIs" Sure it is if those browsers are cross-platform. I doubt the Windows 8 APIs are cross platform.
  - shanselman 14y ago
    PhoneGap, Mobile Safari, window.external.Notify, window.sidebar in Firefox but not Opera, you get the idea.
- mythz 14y ago
  If there's no equivalent work around it's not portable - simple as that. Proprietary hooks and APIs aren't evil, but suggesting developing for Metro is "open" and portable is wrong. Since you've mentioned it, Mozilla isn't touting to use XUL for "open" cross-browser apps - although XUL itself, unlike anything Metro, is open source and does run cross-platform. Mozilla is even deprecating the use of XUL for its new Firefox OS (Boot to Gecko) in favor of using pure HTML5 instead. Maybe MS can work together with Mozilla and come up with a common API?
  - shanselman 14y ago
    And Boot to Gecko will no doubt use lots of Firefox OS specific stuff just as WebOS does. I'm not defending Windows 8, I'm just pointing out that it's reasonable to use a language (JavaScript) to call out to 3rd party APIs.
  - mythz 14y ago
    >> And Boot to Gecko will no doubt use lots of Firefox OS specific stuff just as WebOS does. Where did you hear that? everything I've heard is the exact opposite: http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/a-deep-dive-into-mozillas-boot-to-gecko-project-20120510/ http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/a-deep-dive-into-mozilla... >> Everything is HTML5 >> The core to the Boot to Gecko project is the web. Everything you see — right down to the power icon and network status information — is generated by and displayed with HTML5. The icons for the apps, the apps themselves, and the notifications the apps generate… all HTML5. Even the Dialer and the Settings for the device are handled this way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_OS >> Firefox OS (formerly Boot to Gecko, B2G) is an open source operating system in development by Mozilla that aims to support HTML5 apps written using "open Web" technologies rather than platform-specific native APIs. The idea is essentially to have all user-accessible software running on the phone be a Web app that uses advanced HTML5 techniques and device APIs to access the phone's hardware directly via JavaScript.[2] It initially targets Android-compatible smartphones. The difference is Firefox OS is building as much as they can (everything?) with HTML5, Whilst all Metro's advanced functionality is hidden behind proprietary APIs - The comparison of "open-ess" between the 2 is not even close.
- j_s 14y ago
  The point being made by mythz to barista was that Metro's HTML5 + JavaScript was not portable (cross-platform), and you clearly agree. The only one talking about 'bad' is you saying it's 'not bad'.
  - shanselman 14y ago
    Point taken.