3 ms·

The article doesn't claim that cargo cults don't exist, they just work very differently and the story that Feynman shared is likely inspired by an exploitation

The article doesn't claim that cargo cults don't exist, they just work very differently and the story that Feynman shared is likely inspired by an exploitation movie from the 60s.

fidotron 2y ago
> the story that Feynman shared is likely inspired by an exploitation movie from the 60s. This sort of evidence-free leaping needs its own metaphor.
- spacechild1 2y ago
  IMO the article makes some pretty convincing points. The things described by Feynman appear in "Mondo Cane", but there seem to be no other sources. What do you make of that? Fun fact: the Wikipedia article on cargo cults cites the movie for the airport ritual, together with a "better source needed" disclaimer :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Postwar_developments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Postwar_development...
  - fidotron 2y ago
    There remains no evidence he got it from the movie, especially since he was in an environment with a lot of war veterans around. There is a lot more evidence of behavior of the sort you seem to have trouble accepting occurs. For example, on your link, and cited from a book (so obviously credible): “Cult behaviors usually involved mimicking the day-to-day activities and dress styles of US soldiers, such as performing parade ground drills with wooden or salvaged rifles.” Which is at least as ridiculous as anything else.
    - spacechild1 2y ago
      The existance of cargo cults is a fact, I never denied that. The point is that there seems to be no credible evidence for the specific example that Feynman gives. Or should I just take his word?
      - fidotron 2y ago
        You are missing the forest for the trees. The example I cited, of performing parade drills with fake guns without understanding their purpose while hoping they will cause some other effect, is more than sufficient to fill the accepted definition of cargo culting. There is no need to get hung up on specifics of airport rituals, which appears to be your preoccupation.
        spacechild1 2y ago
        Well, your original statement was > Some people just want to be offended by reality. Things like this exist: which nobody denied in the first place...
        fidotron 2y ago
        Yes, you clearly are trying to be offended by reality. You said in reply > The article doesn't claim that cargo cults don't exist, they just work very differently and the story that Feynman shared is likely inspired by an exploitation movie from the 60s. Except we have established that in substance the cargo cults are performing the main claim of repeating observed actions in order to provoke cargo, and there is no evidence for your pure speculation regarding where Feynman got it from. Ironically enough, that means there is infinitely more evidence that the cargo cults were engaged in the precise thing you are so concerned about than your Feynman theories. He could simply have engaged in poetic license, or been, horror, told by a colleague that was there.
        spacechild1 2y ago
        > Yes, you clearly are trying to be offended by reality. I think I made it pretty clear by now that nobody denies the existence of cargo cults. > and there is no evidence for your pure speculation regarding where Feynman got it from. Similarly, there is no evidence that the story as told by Feynman ever happened. That's my whole point. > He could simply have engaged in poetic license, or been, horror, told by a colleague that was there. That's exactly the problem. He likely relied on hearsay and gave a distorted picture of what cargo cults are about in general. The example he cites is neither typical, nor supported by the literature. Look, I'm not saying we should stop using that word or something. I like it as a metaphor. At the same time, we can raise awareness of scientific facts.

The article doesn't claim that cargo cults don't exist, they just work very differently and the story that Feynman shared is likely inspired by an exploitation movie from the 60s.

fidotron 2y ago

> the story that Feynman shared is likely inspired by an exploitation movie from the 60s. This sort of evidence-free leaping needs its own metaphor.

spacechild1 2y ago
IMO the article makes some pretty convincing points. The things described by Feynman appear in "Mondo Cane", but there seem to be no other sources. What do you make of that? Fun fact: the Wikipedia article on cargo cults cites the movie for the airport ritual, together with a "better source needed" disclaimer :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Postwar_developments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult#Postwar_development...
- fidotron 2y ago
  There remains no evidence he got it from the movie, especially since he was in an environment with a lot of war veterans around. There is a lot more evidence of behavior of the sort you seem to have trouble accepting occurs. For example, on your link, and cited from a book (so obviously credible): “Cult behaviors usually involved mimicking the day-to-day activities and dress styles of US soldiers, such as performing parade ground drills with wooden or salvaged rifles.” Which is at least as ridiculous as anything else.
  - spacechild1 2y ago
    The existance of cargo cults is a fact, I never denied that. The point is that there seems to be no credible evidence for the specific example that Feynman gives. Or should I just take his word?
    - fidotron 2y ago
      You are missing the forest for the trees. The example I cited, of performing parade drills with fake guns without understanding their purpose while hoping they will cause some other effect, is more than sufficient to fill the accepted definition of cargo culting. There is no need to get hung up on specifics of airport rituals, which appears to be your preoccupation.
      - spacechild1 2y ago
        Well, your original statement was > Some people just want to be offended by reality. Things like this exist: which nobody denied in the first place...
        fidotron 2y ago
        Yes, you clearly are trying to be offended by reality. You said in reply > The article doesn't claim that cargo cults don't exist, they just work very differently and the story that Feynman shared is likely inspired by an exploitation movie from the 60s. Except we have established that in substance the cargo cults are performing the main claim of repeating observed actions in order to provoke cargo, and there is no evidence for your pure speculation regarding where Feynman got it from. Ironically enough, that means there is infinitely more evidence that the cargo cults were engaged in the precise thing you are so concerned about than your Feynman theories. He could simply have engaged in poetic license, or been, horror, told by a colleague that was there.
        spacechild1 2y ago
        > Yes, you clearly are trying to be offended by reality. I think I made it pretty clear by now that nobody denies the existence of cargo cults. > and there is no evidence for your pure speculation regarding where Feynman got it from. Similarly, there is no evidence that the story as told by Feynman ever happened. That's my whole point. > He could simply have engaged in poetic license, or been, horror, told by a colleague that was there. That's exactly the problem. He likely relied on hearsay and gave a distorted picture of what cargo cults are about in general. The example he cites is neither typical, nor supported by the literature. Look, I'm not saying we should stop using that word or something. I like it as a metaphor. At the same time, we can raise awareness of scientific facts.