4 ms·

The biggest problem comes when this type of language policing is seen as the primary way of changing behaviours. It's correct to be anti-racist / anti-sexist /

The biggest problem comes when this type of language policing is seen as the primary way of changing behaviours. It's correct to be anti-racist / anti-sexist / etc. but that doesn't come from just changing your language while still operating the same as before. It reminds me of the whole fuss over using "homeless" vs "unhoused" - while actual policies to help homeless people get ignored or defunded.

psychoslave 2y ago
Of course the wording is not all. But it does induce a perspective on the situation, be it conscious or not. And it then more or less subtly influence how we engage in extra-linguistic interaction. It plays a huge role with feedback loops through laws that are the public statement of the dominant social order. And it has also a large impact on informal actions done at the tacitly ordinary daily social exceptions. Consider how factory, mill, works and plant are all usable to refer to a place where some human endeavor is conducted. The term plant has several etymological hypothesis, including one linking it to slavery and colonization through plantations.[1] https://shuncy.com/article/why-are-factories-called-plants-carver https://shuncy.com/article/why-are-factories-called-plants-c... I’m not a English native and I’m unaware of the "homeless" vs "unhoused" tensions. But to my mind they still seems same-minded compared to "indigent", "pauper", "sedentarized", "nomad" or "settler".
unitol 2y ago
Isn't the distinction between "homeless" and "unhoused" that the former includes people who may have a house to stay in, at least temporarily, but the latter does not? Like the difference between couchsurfing in a friend's house (homeless but not unhoused) and sleeping in a car or on the street (both homeless and unhoused).
- dack 2y ago
  the distinction is rarely necessary in most discussions though, so if that's the intention, it's not all that helpful
poulpy123 2y ago
Ironically policing vocabulary like they do in hope to improve anything is a good example of cargo culting
DFHippie 2y ago
> It reminds me of the whole fuss over using "homeless" vs "unhoused" - while actual policies to help homeless people get ignored or defunded. More than one thing happens at a time. I'm fairly certain the people urging us to change our metaphors are also the ones pushing for more substantive change. I am ambivalent about these language change campaigns myself. On the one hand, you're asking for almost nothing of people other than the agree that they agree something is wrong. On the other, inevitably it results in an ugly, violent backlash which reveals that that which you thought was beyond the pale isn't. Everyone rushes to die on the hill you pointed out. I have a similar feeling about people insisting that starfish and jellyfish be called sea stars and jellies, but here I think the moral argument lies entirely with the resisters. No one is confused that these radially symmetric things are fish. What, are we going to call cardinals redbirds now because they aren't actually clergymen? But in the case of metaphors that belittle or bother someone, why not just change? It demands nothing of you but courtesy.
- Nursie 2y ago
  It costs significant cognitive load, to change one’s use of language, to remember that to express the same thought one must now say b instead of a. Couple it with a social taboo - people who still say ‘a’ are bad people! Literally the worst! Actual racists! - and it’s not really a surprise that there is pushback.
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    >It costs significant cognitive load, It really doesn't. The human brain is very adept at accepting renames for concepts and we are so accustomed to alternative references to the same thing that we take physical pleasure from wordplay and give nicknames to our favorite things. It takes only a few tries to start learning a new name or reference to something for normal people. Hell, give it a try! Take a completely meaningless or harmless term in your life and attempt to use a different word for it. Hell, there is a wonderful children's book about doing this called "Frindle". I would go so far as to argue being able to liberally and arbitrarily adjust how we reference things is one of the key powers that makes language work, and one of the main ways it enhances our ability to work with concepts and logical systems. Language DOES affect the way we think. If using a different word for something really does cause you significant cognitive load, consider seeing a psychologist because there might be something "abnormal" about your brain.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> The biggest problem comes when this type of language policing is seen as the primary way of changing behaviours. I think the biggest problem comes when this type of language policing is the primary way of changing behaviors. Lack of adequate conflict resolution leads to dysfunction.
- lazide 2y ago
  It is, also, very Soviet’esque.

psychoslave 2y ago

Of course the wording is not all. But it does induce a perspective on the situation, be it conscious or not. And it then more or less subtly influence how we engage in extra-linguistic interaction. It plays a huge role with feedback loops through laws that are the public statement of the dominant social order. And it has also a large impact on informal actions done at the tacitly ordinary daily social exceptions. Consider how factory, mill, works and plant are all usable to refer to a place where some human endeavor is conducted. The term plant has several etymological hypothesis, including one linking it to slavery and colonization through plantations.[1] https://shuncy.com/article/why-are-factories-called-plants-carver https://shuncy.com/article/why-are-factories-called-plants-c... I’m not a English native and I’m unaware of the "homeless" vs "unhoused" tensions. But to my mind they still seems same-minded compared to "indigent", "pauper", "sedentarized", "nomad" or "settler".

unitol 2y ago

Isn't the distinction between "homeless" and "unhoused" that the former includes people who may have a house to stay in, at least temporarily, but the latter does not? Like the difference between couchsurfing in a friend's house (homeless but not unhoused) and sleeping in a car or on the street (both homeless and unhoused).

dack 2y ago
the distinction is rarely necessary in most discussions though, so if that's the intention, it's not all that helpful

poulpy123 2y ago

Ironically policing vocabulary like they do in hope to improve anything is a good example of cargo culting

DFHippie 2y ago

> It reminds me of the whole fuss over using "homeless" vs "unhoused" - while actual policies to help homeless people get ignored or defunded. More than one thing happens at a time. I'm fairly certain the people urging us to change our metaphors are also the ones pushing for more substantive change. I am ambivalent about these language change campaigns myself. On the one hand, you're asking for almost nothing of people other than the agree that they agree something is wrong. On the other, inevitably it results in an ugly, violent backlash which reveals that that which you thought was beyond the pale isn't. Everyone rushes to die on the hill you pointed out. I have a similar feeling about people insisting that starfish and jellyfish be called sea stars and jellies, but here I think the moral argument lies entirely with the resisters. No one is confused that these radially symmetric things are fish. What, are we going to call cardinals redbirds now because they aren't actually clergymen? But in the case of metaphors that belittle or bother someone, why not just change? It demands nothing of you but courtesy.

Nursie 2y ago
It costs significant cognitive load, to change one’s use of language, to remember that to express the same thought one must now say b instead of a. Couple it with a social taboo - people who still say ‘a’ are bad people! Literally the worst! Actual racists! - and it’s not really a surprise that there is pushback.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  >It costs significant cognitive load, It really doesn't. The human brain is very adept at accepting renames for concepts and we are so accustomed to alternative references to the same thing that we take physical pleasure from wordplay and give nicknames to our favorite things. It takes only a few tries to start learning a new name or reference to something for normal people. Hell, give it a try! Take a completely meaningless or harmless term in your life and attempt to use a different word for it. Hell, there is a wonderful children's book about doing this called "Frindle". I would go so far as to argue being able to liberally and arbitrarily adjust how we reference things is one of the key powers that makes language work, and one of the main ways it enhances our ability to work with concepts and logical systems. Language DOES affect the way we think. If using a different word for something really does cause you significant cognitive load, consider seeing a psychologist because there might be something "abnormal" about your brain.

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> The biggest problem comes when this type of language policing is seen as the primary way of changing behaviours. I think the biggest problem comes when this type of language policing is the primary way of changing behaviors. Lack of adequate conflict resolution leads to dysfunction.

lazide 2y ago
It is, also, very Soviet’esque.