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"everyone is too stupid to be trusted with general purpose computers" is a pretty grim position to hold

emmelaich 2y ago
You left out the vital clause. "... if they have total unfettered control". Also, not everyone. Obviously. It's a position I came to rather regretfully and sadly.
- LocalH 2y ago
  How do you propose we limit access to general-purpose computing without doing so across the board for everyone? How would you block bad actors from general-purpose computing? Require licensing to use development tools, and track what they're used for so you can react when someone crosses that "line"? Congratulations, you've just destroyed computing.
  - jmb99 2y ago
    While obviously not perfect, what we have today is > limit[ing] access to general-purpose computing without doing so across the board for everyone I imagine the vast majority of people on this site run (or at least have used) Linux, *BSD, etc. on a daily basis. No average person is going to set up Arch on their main PC, but lots of us do. Your average person enjoys their locked-down Samsungs and iPhones, while we enjoy unlocked problem-ridden (but personally solvable) Linux environments. Would it be better if every person who could buy an iPhone was sufficiently technically competent to not install malware on their easily-rootable phone? Yes. But that’s not the world we live in. Maybe I’m succumbing to the “First They Came...” mindset, but until I can’t run Linux on a PC I’ve built with components of my choosing, I don’t really care if my phone is a semi-closed semi-black box. I used to enjoy jailbreaking iOS devices, but eventually decided I’m happy with my phone just being a phone. If I want to tinker, I’ve got a rack full of servers and 3 different workstations I have the freedom to break whenever I want. It’s nice to have a phone that can just do phone things 100% of the time - I haven’t had an iOS system crash (or any bug preventing use) in about 5 years, which was the last time I had a jailbroken phone.
gjsman-1000 2y ago
A grim position that is completely accurate for over 90% of people.
lightedman 2y ago
A grim position that accurately reflects my 36 years of experience involving people and computers.
- fsflover 2y ago
  Is it about computers only, or should the people be protected from themselves in every aspect of life?
  - lightedman 2y ago
    "should the people be protected from themselves" There's a line from Blazing Saddles that comes to mind...

You left out the vital clause. "... if they have total unfettered control". Also, not everyone. Obviously. It's a position I came to rather regretfully and sadly.

LocalH 2y ago
How do you propose we limit access to general-purpose computing without doing so across the board for everyone? How would you block bad actors from general-purpose computing? Require licensing to use development tools, and track what they're used for so you can react when someone crosses that "line"? Congratulations, you've just destroyed computing.
- jmb99 2y ago
  While obviously not perfect, what we have today is > limit[ing] access to general-purpose computing without doing so across the board for everyone I imagine the vast majority of people on this site run (or at least have used) Linux, *BSD, etc. on a daily basis. No average person is going to set up Arch on their main PC, but lots of us do. Your average person enjoys their locked-down Samsungs and iPhones, while we enjoy unlocked problem-ridden (but personally solvable) Linux environments. Would it be better if every person who could buy an iPhone was sufficiently technically competent to not install malware on their easily-rootable phone? Yes. But that’s not the world we live in. Maybe I’m succumbing to the “First They Came...” mindset, but until I can’t run Linux on a PC I’ve built with components of my choosing, I don’t really care if my phone is a semi-closed semi-black box. I used to enjoy jailbreaking iOS devices, but eventually decided I’m happy with my phone just being a phone. If I want to tinker, I’ve got a rack full of servers and 3 different workstations I have the freedom to break whenever I want. It’s nice to have a phone that can just do phone things 100% of the time - I haven’t had an iOS system crash (or any bug preventing use) in about 5 years, which was the last time I had a jailbroken phone.

gjsman-1000 2y ago

A grim position that is completely accurate for over 90% of people.

lightedman 2y ago

A grim position that accurately reflects my 36 years of experience involving people and computers.

fsflover 2y ago
Is it about computers only, or should the people be protected from themselves in every aspect of life?
- lightedman 2y ago
  "should the people be protected from themselves" There's a line from Blazing Saddles that comes to mind...