6 ms·

brew install postgres Done. How is this useful?

by jdelsman 14y ago

Aqua_Geek 14y ago
It doesn't require you to have dev tools installed.
- lost-theory 14y ago
  Can you call yourself a developer then? :)
  - ketralnis 14y ago
    Yeah, how dare that non-C-programmer call himself a True Scottsman without a C compiler installed?
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      That argument made sense in the 80's when a C compiler cost more than the whole machine.
    - learc83 14y ago
      You need dev tools for a whole lot more than C programming. What happens when you're trying to compile native libraries for your high level language?
mattsoldo 14y ago
brew was a big step forward. But 1 step (download postgres.app) is better than 3 (install devtools, install brew, brew install postgres). We saw that many developers were using SQLite (or MySQL) on their local machines, but Postgres on Heroku. This led to frustrating and hard to diagnose bugs and behaviors in their apps. Our hypothesis is that easier local install will lead to more widespread usage for the technology.
- eblume 14y ago
  This will definitely lead to more people using Postgres on their OS X setups, but what I wonder is whether it will lead to an overall better quality of development. Let me try to articulate my point, but I could probably use some help: I suspect that the sort of developers who were writing apps and using SQLite locally but deploying with Postgres were the sort of developers whom will still use shaky and poor development and deployment practices regardless of whether or not Postgres is available to them locally. Orthogonally, I think that the kinds of developers who will actually take the time to follow best development and deployment practices probably wouldn't want to use an app like this - not because it isn't a nice and helpful app, but because they probably want to install the full always-on server bundle via 'brew'. That's my guess anyway. Does this mean the app was a bad idea? No, definitely not. But I don't personally expect a huge uptick in Heroku deployment quality because of it. At least it definitely won't be for lack of trying!
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    I routinely use SQLite for development and deploy against PostgreSQL and MySQL (and others) and I don't think my development and deployment practices are either shaky or poor. I write tests, measure coverage, do continuous testing (including load testing and resource consumption goals) and the fancy technologies that allow me to target different databases with the same source code are nothing new: SQL and an ORM. I consider the fact the code isn't very tied to a given database implementation is a sign of high quality, not the other way around. No doubt this app will appeal to the more casual developers. When the low-end of Dell is a 4-core x86-64 with more memory than most people will ever need, most non-casual developers who need to write code specific to a given database will have it starting up on boot.
    - alttab 14y ago
      Agreed. The pay off seems rather incremental but the playoffs are nuanced. A developer doesn't have to install it manually, and this is big for junior developers who may not have set up a sophisticated environment before. It also cuts down on set up time for new machines and new hires. Any bogus environmental issues go away and could regain 3-4 hours on day 1 getting into a new app. Postgres performs and behaves differently too. Developers will be more conscious of vacuuming and analyzing their DBS, especially after large deletes, etc. Overall it removes friction, regardless of how trivial, and helps commoditize the whole development and deployment cycle which is essentially herokus entire value proposition. I say great work.
pbreit 14y ago
Shouldn't there be some easy, non-Brew/non-app way to install this type of stuff on MacOS?
- Tyr42 14y ago
  What do you want? If it's not homebrew, but also not an app, what does that leave? A pkg? Not really a step up from the other two. Or just a tarball with the source?
  - Someone 14y ago
    I agree it is not a bright question, but there is a third option: upgrade to Mac OS X Server. It apparently has a command-line PostgreSQL installation.
    - Aqua_Geek 14y ago
      That seems a bit overkill just to get Postgres installed.
  - pbreit 14y ago
    Yeah, sorry, probably a dumb comment. As somewhat of a sys admin newbie, it struck me as unfortunate that there wasn't something already available. I generally don't like installing things because I'm not sure what's being done and if I can easily and completely uninstall. But Brew is relatively safe?
    - jasomill 14y ago
      No safer than any other method of running arbitrary code under your user account, or than any other package management tool with reasonable conventions about where it installs software. If your goal is something that can easily and obviously be uninstalled completely, the App Store version sounds like exactly what you're looking for; Apple is pretty strict about what an App Store app can and can't do outside its sandbox. Otherwise, I've been using the binary installers from PostgreSQL.org on OS X for years, and they work fine. They install everything into /Library/PostgreSQL, so they're self-contained, and the server starts/stops/can be set to auto-start easily with launchctl.
ctide 14y ago
Error: Failed executing: make install-world (postgresql.rb:67) Now I have 2 options. I can continue googling this error and trying all the random solutions (fyi, none of them worked, and I spent a solid 2 hours trying all of them) or I can install postgresql.app and get back to doing actual work. I chose #2.
flatline3 14y ago
port install postgresql90-server Even uses MacPort's pre-built binary packages, so I don't have to wait for the compile. The application GUI is still useful for some people that don't otherwise need MacPorts or homebrew.

brew install postgres Done. How is this useful?

Aqua_Geek 14y ago

It doesn't require you to have dev tools installed.

lost-theory 14y ago
Can you call yourself a developer then? :)
- ketralnis 14y ago
  Yeah, how dare that non-C-programmer call himself a True Scottsman without a C compiler installed?
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    That argument made sense in the 80's when a C compiler cost more than the whole machine.
  - learc83 14y ago
    You need dev tools for a whole lot more than C programming. What happens when you're trying to compile native libraries for your high level language?

mattsoldo 14y ago

brew was a big step forward. But 1 step (download postgres.app) is better than 3 (install devtools, install brew, brew install postgres). We saw that many developers were using SQLite (or MySQL) on their local machines, but Postgres on Heroku. This led to frustrating and hard to diagnose bugs and behaviors in their apps. Our hypothesis is that easier local install will lead to more widespread usage for the technology.

eblume 14y ago
This will definitely lead to more people using Postgres on their OS X setups, but what I wonder is whether it will lead to an overall better quality of development. Let me try to articulate my point, but I could probably use some help: I suspect that the sort of developers who were writing apps and using SQLite locally but deploying with Postgres were the sort of developers whom will still use shaky and poor development and deployment practices regardless of whether or not Postgres is available to them locally. Orthogonally, I think that the kinds of developers who will actually take the time to follow best development and deployment practices probably wouldn't want to use an app like this - not because it isn't a nice and helpful app, but because they probably want to install the full always-on server bundle via 'brew'. That's my guess anyway. Does this mean the app was a bad idea? No, definitely not. But I don't personally expect a huge uptick in Heroku deployment quality because of it. At least it definitely won't be for lack of trying!
- rbanffy 14y ago
  I routinely use SQLite for development and deploy against PostgreSQL and MySQL (and others) and I don't think my development and deployment practices are either shaky or poor. I write tests, measure coverage, do continuous testing (including load testing and resource consumption goals) and the fancy technologies that allow me to target different databases with the same source code are nothing new: SQL and an ORM. I consider the fact the code isn't very tied to a given database implementation is a sign of high quality, not the other way around. No doubt this app will appeal to the more casual developers. When the low-end of Dell is a 4-core x86-64 with more memory than most people will ever need, most non-casual developers who need to write code specific to a given database will have it starting up on boot.
  - alttab 14y ago
    Agreed. The pay off seems rather incremental but the playoffs are nuanced. A developer doesn't have to install it manually, and this is big for junior developers who may not have set up a sophisticated environment before. It also cuts down on set up time for new machines and new hires. Any bogus environmental issues go away and could regain 3-4 hours on day 1 getting into a new app. Postgres performs and behaves differently too. Developers will be more conscious of vacuuming and analyzing their DBS, especially after large deletes, etc. Overall it removes friction, regardless of how trivial, and helps commoditize the whole development and deployment cycle which is essentially herokus entire value proposition. I say great work.

pbreit 14y ago

Shouldn't there be some easy, non-Brew/non-app way to install this type of stuff on MacOS?

Tyr42 14y ago
What do you want? If it's not homebrew, but also not an app, what does that leave? A pkg? Not really a step up from the other two. Or just a tarball with the source?
- Someone 14y ago
  I agree it is not a bright question, but there is a third option: upgrade to Mac OS X Server. It apparently has a command-line PostgreSQL installation.
  - Aqua_Geek 14y ago
    That seems a bit overkill just to get Postgres installed.
- pbreit 14y ago
  Yeah, sorry, probably a dumb comment. As somewhat of a sys admin newbie, it struck me as unfortunate that there wasn't something already available. I generally don't like installing things because I'm not sure what's being done and if I can easily and completely uninstall. But Brew is relatively safe?
  - jasomill 14y ago
    No safer than any other method of running arbitrary code under your user account, or than any other package management tool with reasonable conventions about where it installs software. If your goal is something that can easily and obviously be uninstalled completely, the App Store version sounds like exactly what you're looking for; Apple is pretty strict about what an App Store app can and can't do outside its sandbox. Otherwise, I've been using the binary installers from PostgreSQL.org on OS X for years, and they work fine. They install everything into /Library/PostgreSQL, so they're self-contained, and the server starts/stops/can be set to auto-start easily with launchctl.

ctide 14y ago

Error: Failed executing: make install-world (postgresql.rb:67) Now I have 2 options. I can continue googling this error and trying all the random solutions (fyi, none of them worked, and I spent a solid 2 hours trying all of them) or I can install postgresql.app and get back to doing actual work. I chose #2.

flatline3 14y ago

port install postgresql90-server Even uses MacPort's pre-built binary packages, so I don't have to wait for the compile. The application GUI is still useful for some people that don't otherwise need MacPorts or homebrew.