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The US started this war ~$30 trillion in debt, with the worlds largest military budget by a big margin. Colour me sceptical that billions more dollars will help

by roenxi 2y ago

The US started this war ~$30 trillion in debt, with the worlds largest military budget by a big margin. Colour me sceptical that billions more dollars will help. The US tried that, it didn't work out. Last I saw, the interest on the debt was higher than its military spending; from the peanut gallery it looks more like more spending will get them a classic over-extension and collapse. The US wants to live in a backwards world where massive debtors can sustain wars indefinitely but creditors will get exhausted. It'd be great for them if that works, but I'd tag that sort of thinking as a big contributing factor in Trump returning to the White House. They don't seem to have the juice to pull a war with Russia off.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
Not sure how any of this is relevant to what we were just discussing. > US wants to live in a backwards world where massive debtors can sustain wars indefinitely but creditors will get exhausted Weird side street to get lost in while discussing Russia getting financially bailed out by China.
cycrutchfield 2y ago
>They don't seem to have the juice to pull a war with Russia off. My brother in Christ, Russia can’t even pull off a war with its much smaller neighbor who is using NATO’s scraps and hand-me-downs.
- roenxi 2y ago
  I have a tough time seeing it. That requires me to believe that NATO is unhappy about Russia invading Ukraine, capable of turning Russia back and actively choosing not to. But willing to make a mortal enemy of the Russian military by getting a lot of Russians killed. And actively spinning up new military capability because, while obviously they aren't in a hard spot, they need to move to a better place ASAP. I have a much easier time believing that NATO has given Ukraine all the support it can and it wasn't enough to halt the Russian advance. The Russians are clearly paying a terrible price, but NATO doesn't believe it can charge any more than that.
  - cycrutchfield 2y ago
    Russia captured barely more than 4000 sq km of territory in all of 2024. Seems like Ukraine is doing quite well halting the Russian advance and making them pay a terrible price.
    - an_guy 2y ago
      Why is no one talking about Ukranian debt? Billions of foreign debt that keeps piling on while their Economy is reliant on EU and US donations/debt to even function. What is the end goal? What happens when Zelenskys friends are no longer in power? How does Zelensky plan to repay his debts during/after war??? Become a satellite state like Japan and S.Korea??
      - cycrutchfield 2y ago
        Nobody’s talking about it because they aren’t the aggressor. They didn’t make this choice. They are fighting for their survival. Russia on the other hand…
        an_guy 2y ago
        That would make sense if you were a Ukranian gov official trying to get more money. At the end, it's Ukraine who is dependent on and in debt of EU and US. As long as the conflict goes on, politicians gets their cut, no one talks about it but once everything cools down there would be lot of questions regarding who pays what.
        cycrutchfield 2y ago
        OK buddy. Cope harder
      - rat87 2y ago
        Japan and South Korea are in no sense satellites. They are strong rich liberal democracies that choose to stay in an alliance with the US because it makes sense for them. Ukraine may be a flawed liberal democracy but it is a liberal democracy. Ukraine will join the EU after the war. The rebuilding EU subsidies and anti corruption measures that will need to take place to join the EU will significantly grow the economy. The end goal is the defeat of Russia and then giving up conquering their neighbors. And that Ukraine will remain a liberal democratic state. Zelensky will be out of office someday, he's not a dictator like Putin. Some of the debt will be forgiven the rest will be repaid someday. A state has a long lifespan and can repay large loans over that lifespan especially if the economy significantly improves. It may take a 100 years

by roenxi 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

Not sure how any of this is relevant to what we were just discussing. > US wants to live in a backwards world where massive debtors can sustain wars indefinitely but creditors will get exhausted Weird side street to get lost in while discussing Russia getting financially bailed out by China.

cycrutchfield 2y ago

>They don't seem to have the juice to pull a war with Russia off. My brother in Christ, Russia can’t even pull off a war with its much smaller neighbor who is using NATO’s scraps and hand-me-downs.

roenxi 2y ago
I have a tough time seeing it. That requires me to believe that NATO is unhappy about Russia invading Ukraine, capable of turning Russia back and actively choosing not to. But willing to make a mortal enemy of the Russian military by getting a lot of Russians killed. And actively spinning up new military capability because, while obviously they aren't in a hard spot, they need to move to a better place ASAP. I have a much easier time believing that NATO has given Ukraine all the support it can and it wasn't enough to halt the Russian advance. The Russians are clearly paying a terrible price, but NATO doesn't believe it can charge any more than that.
- cycrutchfield 2y ago
  Russia captured barely more than 4000 sq km of territory in all of 2024. Seems like Ukraine is doing quite well halting the Russian advance and making them pay a terrible price.
  - an_guy 2y ago
    Why is no one talking about Ukranian debt? Billions of foreign debt that keeps piling on while their Economy is reliant on EU and US donations/debt to even function. What is the end goal? What happens when Zelenskys friends are no longer in power? How does Zelensky plan to repay his debts during/after war??? Become a satellite state like Japan and S.Korea??
    - cycrutchfield 2y ago
      Nobody’s talking about it because they aren’t the aggressor. They didn’t make this choice. They are fighting for their survival. Russia on the other hand…
      - an_guy 2y ago
        That would make sense if you were a Ukranian gov official trying to get more money. At the end, it's Ukraine who is dependent on and in debt of EU and US. As long as the conflict goes on, politicians gets their cut, no one talks about it but once everything cools down there would be lot of questions regarding who pays what.
        cycrutchfield 2y ago
        OK buddy. Cope harder
    - rat87 2y ago
      Japan and South Korea are in no sense satellites. They are strong rich liberal democracies that choose to stay in an alliance with the US because it makes sense for them. Ukraine may be a flawed liberal democracy but it is a liberal democracy. Ukraine will join the EU after the war. The rebuilding EU subsidies and anti corruption measures that will need to take place to join the EU will significantly grow the economy. The end goal is the defeat of Russia and then giving up conquering their neighbors. And that Ukraine will remain a liberal democratic state. Zelensky will be out of office someday, he's not a dictator like Putin. Some of the debt will be forgiven the rest will be repaid someday. A state has a long lifespan and can repay large loans over that lifespan especially if the economy significantly improves. It may take a 100 years