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How would that free up worker time while preserving the same amount of physical goods and services available for consumption? Lets say every company stops buyb

How would that free up worker time while preserving the same amount of physical goods and services available for consumption? Lets say every company stops buybacks, that doesnt mean workers can make more "stuff" with fewer hours.

satvikpendem 2y ago
It's because the people who say things like the above have no real alternative solution in place and simply say things that sound good in theory (or are even wholly unrelated, as you explained) but fundamentally don't change anything about the world.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  Weak response personal attack is weak and lame.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    It's not really a personal attack, it's an observation. You haven't actually elaborated on the parent's question but for some reason replied to me instead, which proves my point.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      Not a personal attack, sure. I responded to the personal attack first my dude and responded to his post literally within one minute of your reply here. Stock buybacks are stock manipulation by management and a means of tax evasion (raises the stock value in order for the big holders to borrow against held stock so benefiting from gains without paying taxes, something average holders don't benefit from) and add ZERO to the economy or the market. Companies using the funds as intended by a functioning market, either re-investing in the company, strengthening the company by holding in reserve, or rewarding investors with taxable income that then circulates in the economy and provides the expected tax funds. Also your response to my was was again a personal attack in the form of 'observation'.
      - satvikpendem 2y ago
        My point is that that can all be true about stock buybacks (which I disagree with your interpretation of, but anyway), but that is completely orthogonal to what was asked, which is, why would stock buybacks allow more time and less work for workers? That is what I meant when I said that people respond to such questions with something unrelated because they have no real alternate solution.
        _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        See my reply above regarding SouthWest, it's poor scheduling software that had huge impacts on flight crew up to and including reaching catastrophe in December 2022 that cost SouthWest a $1 billion expense, and the billions of dollars in stock buybacks SouthWest did in the run up to the totally preventable with investment in the company billion dollar failure (that had already been seriously impacting workers previously). This real world over a billion dollar loss example took me literally 2 minutes to come up with because your weak 'poster is dumb and their position literally is empty echochamber' annoyed me enough to hunt you a random real world example for my 'just an empty echochamber mentally weak take'. Southwest buybacks: https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Southwest_Airlines_scheduling_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Southwest_Airlines_schedu... Edit: Added CRLF before Wikipedia link for clarity.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Food for thought: I have never had a productive conversation with someone who thinks buybacks are market manipulation and see it as cue to disengage. IMO it is like debating with a sovereign citizen. They invoke a ton of technical concepts and jargon, but all with their bespoke personal definitions. Up means down and 2+2=5. We simply dont share enough common reality to communicate.
        satvikpendem 2y ago
        Indeed, it is tiring to talk to these folks and simply not worth reiterating the same point over and over when they bring up wholly orthogonal topics to the point at hand. It seems like their other comment threads are similar in nature.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Those funds would either be re-invested in the company (providing a better work environment and a stronger financial position for the company) or distributed to the shareholders and circulated into the economy and generating tax revenue for society. Instead they are stuck in 'paper' stock value that does nothing but allow the rich to borrow against the 'gains' denying society even benefiting from the taxes those funds should generate if not re-invested in the company in an actual, non 'paper' valuation way.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  Why do you believe reinvestment into the company would free up worker time? When has that ever happened through reinvestment into a company?
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Here is a list of SouthWest stock buybacks https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks December 2022 SouthWest canceled all flights for multiple days costing a billion dollars because of poor scheduling software. Running poor quality/inefficient scheduling software most likely incurred other additional expenses/stresses for workers and flight crews during a larger period than December 2022 but there is not a way for me to quickly to put a cumulative value on that for a response here. That 1 billion dollar loss and incurred stress for workers can be attributed to the stock buybacks listed above.
    - satvikpendem 2y ago
      It can't be attributed to stock buybacks though, you just assume it can be. Lots of companies that didn't buy back stocks also have poor internal software and may generally not reinvest that money internally, or invest it incorrectly instead of blowing it on some other thing than buybacks. There is no causal relationship at all, and not even a strong correlative one between buybacking companies and business failures.
      - 2y ago

satvikpendem 2y ago

It's because the people who say things like the above have no real alternative solution in place and simply say things that sound good in theory (or are even wholly unrelated, as you explained) but fundamentally don't change anything about the world.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Weak response personal attack is weak and lame.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  It's not really a personal attack, it's an observation. You haven't actually elaborated on the parent's question but for some reason replied to me instead, which proves my point.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Not a personal attack, sure. I responded to the personal attack first my dude and responded to his post literally within one minute of your reply here. Stock buybacks are stock manipulation by management and a means of tax evasion (raises the stock value in order for the big holders to borrow against held stock so benefiting from gains without paying taxes, something average holders don't benefit from) and add ZERO to the economy or the market. Companies using the funds as intended by a functioning market, either re-investing in the company, strengthening the company by holding in reserve, or rewarding investors with taxable income that then circulates in the economy and provides the expected tax funds. Also your response to my was was again a personal attack in the form of 'observation'.
    - satvikpendem 2y ago
      My point is that that can all be true about stock buybacks (which I disagree with your interpretation of, but anyway), but that is completely orthogonal to what was asked, which is, why would stock buybacks allow more time and less work for workers? That is what I meant when I said that people respond to such questions with something unrelated because they have no real alternate solution.
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        See my reply above regarding SouthWest, it's poor scheduling software that had huge impacts on flight crew up to and including reaching catastrophe in December 2022 that cost SouthWest a $1 billion expense, and the billions of dollars in stock buybacks SouthWest did in the run up to the totally preventable with investment in the company billion dollar failure (that had already been seriously impacting workers previously). This real world over a billion dollar loss example took me literally 2 minutes to come up with because your weak 'poster is dumb and their position literally is empty echochamber' annoyed me enough to hunt you a random real world example for my 'just an empty echochamber mentally weak take'. Southwest buybacks: https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Southwest_Airlines_scheduling_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Southwest_Airlines_schedu... Edit: Added CRLF before Wikipedia link for clarity.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Food for thought: I have never had a productive conversation with someone who thinks buybacks are market manipulation and see it as cue to disengage. IMO it is like debating with a sovereign citizen. They invoke a ton of technical concepts and jargon, but all with their bespoke personal definitions. Up means down and 2+2=5. We simply dont share enough common reality to communicate.
        satvikpendem 2y ago
        Indeed, it is tiring to talk to these folks and simply not worth reiterating the same point over and over when they bring up wholly orthogonal topics to the point at hand. It seems like their other comment threads are similar in nature.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Those funds would either be re-invested in the company (providing a better work environment and a stronger financial position for the company) or distributed to the shareholders and circulated into the economy and generating tax revenue for society. Instead they are stuck in 'paper' stock value that does nothing but allow the rich to borrow against the 'gains' denying society even benefiting from the taxes those funds should generate if not re-invested in the company in an actual, non 'paper' valuation way.

satvikpendem 2y ago
Why do you believe reinvestment into the company would free up worker time? When has that ever happened through reinvestment into a company?
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  Here is a list of SouthWest stock buybacks https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/luv/buybacks December 2022 SouthWest canceled all flights for multiple days costing a billion dollars because of poor scheduling software. Running poor quality/inefficient scheduling software most likely incurred other additional expenses/stresses for workers and flight crews during a larger period than December 2022 but there is not a way for me to quickly to put a cumulative value on that for a response here. That 1 billion dollar loss and incurred stress for workers can be attributed to the stock buybacks listed above.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    It can't be attributed to stock buybacks though, you just assume it can be. Lots of companies that didn't buy back stocks also have poor internal software and may generally not reinvest that money internally, or invest it incorrectly instead of blowing it on some other thing than buybacks. There is no causal relationship at all, and not even a strong correlative one between buybacking companies and business failures.
    - 2y ago