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What a useless write up. http://postgresapp.com/ http://postgresapp.com/ https://github.com/mattt/PostgresApp https://github.com/mattt/PostgresApp Postgres.ap

What a useless write up. http://postgresapp.com/ http://postgresapp.com/ https://github.com/mattt/PostgresApp https://github.com/mattt/PostgresApp Postgres.app is the easiest way to get started with PostgreSQL on the Mac. Open the app, and you have a PostgreSQL server ready and awaiting new connections. Close the app, and the server shuts down. Postgres.app will be distributed through the Mac App Store, with a separate build containing the latest PostgreSQL beta available for direct download from the website.

jdelsman 14y ago
brew install postgres Done. How is this useful?
- Aqua_Geek 14y ago
  It doesn't require you to have dev tools installed.
  - lost-theory 14y ago
    Can you call yourself a developer then? :)
    - ketralnis 14y ago
      Yeah, how dare that non-C-programmer call himself a True Scottsman without a C compiler installed?
      - rbanffy 14y ago
        That argument made sense in the 80's when a C compiler cost more than the whole machine.
      - learc83 14y ago
        You need dev tools for a whole lot more than C programming. What happens when you're trying to compile native libraries for your high level language?
- mattsoldo 14y ago
  brew was a big step forward. But 1 step (download postgres.app) is better than 3 (install devtools, install brew, brew install postgres). We saw that many developers were using SQLite (or MySQL) on their local machines, but Postgres on Heroku. This led to frustrating and hard to diagnose bugs and behaviors in their apps. Our hypothesis is that easier local install will lead to more widespread usage for the technology.
  - eblume 14y ago
    This will definitely lead to more people using Postgres on their OS X setups, but what I wonder is whether it will lead to an overall better quality of development. Let me try to articulate my point, but I could probably use some help: I suspect that the sort of developers who were writing apps and using SQLite locally but deploying with Postgres were the sort of developers whom will still use shaky and poor development and deployment practices regardless of whether or not Postgres is available to them locally. Orthogonally, I think that the kinds of developers who will actually take the time to follow best development and deployment practices probably wouldn't want to use an app like this - not because it isn't a nice and helpful app, but because they probably want to install the full always-on server bundle via 'brew'. That's my guess anyway. Does this mean the app was a bad idea? No, definitely not. But I don't personally expect a huge uptick in Heroku deployment quality because of it. At least it definitely won't be for lack of trying!
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      I routinely use SQLite for development and deploy against PostgreSQL and MySQL (and others) and I don't think my development and deployment practices are either shaky or poor. I write tests, measure coverage, do continuous testing (including load testing and resource consumption goals) and the fancy technologies that allow me to target different databases with the same source code are nothing new: SQL and an ORM. I consider the fact the code isn't very tied to a given database implementation is a sign of high quality, not the other way around. No doubt this app will appeal to the more casual developers. When the low-end of Dell is a 4-core x86-64 with more memory than most people will ever need, most non-casual developers who need to write code specific to a given database will have it starting up on boot.
- pbreit 14y ago
  Shouldn't there be some easy, non-Brew/non-app way to install this type of stuff on MacOS?
  - Tyr42 14y ago
    What do you want? If it's not homebrew, but also not an app, what does that leave? A pkg? Not really a step up from the other two. Or just a tarball with the source?
    - Someone 14y ago
      I agree it is not a bright question, but there is a third option: upgrade to Mac OS X Server. It apparently has a command-line PostgreSQL installation.
      - Aqua_Geek 14y ago
        That seems a bit overkill just to get Postgres installed.
    - pbreit 14y ago
      Yeah, sorry, probably a dumb comment. As somewhat of a sys admin newbie, it struck me as unfortunate that there wasn't something already available. I generally don't like installing things because I'm not sure what's being done and if I can easily and completely uninstall. But Brew is relatively safe?
      - jasomill 14y ago
        No safer than any other method of running arbitrary code under your user account, or than any other package management tool with reasonable conventions about where it installs software. If your goal is something that can easily and obviously be uninstalled completely, the App Store version sounds like exactly what you're looking for; Apple is pretty strict about what an App Store app can and can't do outside its sandbox. Otherwise, I've been using the binary installers from PostgreSQL.org on OS X for years, and they work fine. They install everything into /Library/PostgreSQL, so they're self-contained, and the server starts/stops/can be set to auto-start easily with launchctl.
- ctide 14y ago
  Error: Failed executing: make install-world (postgresql.rb:67) Now I have 2 options. I can continue googling this error and trying all the random solutions (fyi, none of them worked, and I spent a solid 2 hours trying all of them) or I can install postgresql.app and get back to doing actual work. I chose #2.
- flatline3 14y ago
  port install postgresql90-server Even uses MacPort's pre-built binary packages, so I don't have to wait for the compile. The application GUI is still useful for some people that don't otherwise need MacPorts or homebrew.
mark_l_watson 14y ago
+1 I have done 'brew install postgres' for a long while but I just switched to running this app. I run a lot of data stores on my MB Air (postgresql, mongodb, couchdb, mysql, and more rarely hbase and cassandra) for development. Having postgresql an easy startup app is a little bit more convenient. I also like the CouchDB server Mac app, unless I need bigcouch instead. Thanks to the developers who put the app together.
crag 14y ago
Ahh what is the user/password for first login? Might want to put that in the docs. Also, instructions on how to change them. :)
- jensgk 14y ago
  That would be essential. I just installed the thing + pgAdmin + Induction. I can't get it to work, because there they do not tell what the default user/pwd is...
- telemachos 14y ago
  From what I can tell, the app defaults to (1) no password and (2) a base user of $USER. Maybe a better way to put it: whoever you install it as is the owner of the app's folder in /Applications. That will be your base user. I think they're assuming (as is most common) a single-user Mac environment. (The postmaster.opts file hardcodes the name of the Postgres.app owner in the path for the data directory. So I don't think this would work as a multi-user application. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the installation.) Anyhow, start the app, open a psql shell with /Applications/Postgres.app/Contents/MacOS/bin/psql in a terminal window, and you get a session. Since (I think) the app is intended only for development use, I'm not sure if they intend for you to change those defaults. That's not to say that you shouldn't but just that the app is meant to be (nearly) zero conf. (The documentation suggests adding Applications/Postgres.app/Contents/MacOS/bin to $PATH, which is probably a good idea if you will use the command line tools often.)
  - crag 14y ago
    The user id is not the owner of the Application folder (the base user of the machine). So n other words, since they didn't bother telling us the user/password, this app is useless. Better off using MacPorts.
    - telemachos 14y ago
      Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you misunderstood me. The /Application folder itself is owned by root: achilles /$ ls -ld Applications/ drwxrwxr-x+ 55 root admin 1870 Jul 20 06:54 Applications/ But that wasn't what I meant. I meant /Applications/Postgres.app. That is owned by the user who installs it to /Applications. Here it is on my machine, for example: achilles /$ ls -ld Applications/Postgres.app/ drwxr-xr-x@ 3 achilles staff 102 Jul 18 20:17 Applications/Postgres.app/ Beyond that, you can login (with no password), this way: achilles /$ /Applications/Postgres.app/Contents/MacOS/bin/psql psql (9.1.4) Type "help" for help. achilles=# I'm sure it works because I just did it. The setup is arguably insecure, but again I don't think it's meant to be a production database. It's meant, as I understand it, for a single developer to use while coding.

jdelsman 14y ago

brew install postgres Done. How is this useful?

Aqua_Geek 14y ago
It doesn't require you to have dev tools installed.
- lost-theory 14y ago
  Can you call yourself a developer then? :)
  - ketralnis 14y ago
    Yeah, how dare that non-C-programmer call himself a True Scottsman without a C compiler installed?
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      That argument made sense in the 80's when a C compiler cost more than the whole machine.
    - learc83 14y ago
      You need dev tools for a whole lot more than C programming. What happens when you're trying to compile native libraries for your high level language?
mattsoldo 14y ago
brew was a big step forward. But 1 step (download postgres.app) is better than 3 (install devtools, install brew, brew install postgres). We saw that many developers were using SQLite (or MySQL) on their local machines, but Postgres on Heroku. This led to frustrating and hard to diagnose bugs and behaviors in their apps. Our hypothesis is that easier local install will lead to more widespread usage for the technology.
- eblume 14y ago
  This will definitely lead to more people using Postgres on their OS X setups, but what I wonder is whether it will lead to an overall better quality of development. Let me try to articulate my point, but I could probably use some help: I suspect that the sort of developers who were writing apps and using SQLite locally but deploying with Postgres were the sort of developers whom will still use shaky and poor development and deployment practices regardless of whether or not Postgres is available to them locally. Orthogonally, I think that the kinds of developers who will actually take the time to follow best development and deployment practices probably wouldn't want to use an app like this - not because it isn't a nice and helpful app, but because they probably want to install the full always-on server bundle via 'brew'. That's my guess anyway. Does this mean the app was a bad idea? No, definitely not. But I don't personally expect a huge uptick in Heroku deployment quality because of it. At least it definitely won't be for lack of trying!
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    I routinely use SQLite for development and deploy against PostgreSQL and MySQL (and others) and I don't think my development and deployment practices are either shaky or poor. I write tests, measure coverage, do continuous testing (including load testing and resource consumption goals) and the fancy technologies that allow me to target different databases with the same source code are nothing new: SQL and an ORM. I consider the fact the code isn't very tied to a given database implementation is a sign of high quality, not the other way around. No doubt this app will appeal to the more casual developers. When the low-end of Dell is a 4-core x86-64 with more memory than most people will ever need, most non-casual developers who need to write code specific to a given database will have it starting up on boot.
pbreit 14y ago
Shouldn't there be some easy, non-Brew/non-app way to install this type of stuff on MacOS?
- Tyr42 14y ago
  What do you want? If it's not homebrew, but also not an app, what does that leave? A pkg? Not really a step up from the other two. Or just a tarball with the source?
  - Someone 14y ago
    I agree it is not a bright question, but there is a third option: upgrade to Mac OS X Server. It apparently has a command-line PostgreSQL installation.
    - Aqua_Geek 14y ago
      That seems a bit overkill just to get Postgres installed.
  - pbreit 14y ago
    Yeah, sorry, probably a dumb comment. As somewhat of a sys admin newbie, it struck me as unfortunate that there wasn't something already available. I generally don't like installing things because I'm not sure what's being done and if I can easily and completely uninstall. But Brew is relatively safe?
    - jasomill 14y ago
      No safer than any other method of running arbitrary code under your user account, or than any other package management tool with reasonable conventions about where it installs software. If your goal is something that can easily and obviously be uninstalled completely, the App Store version sounds like exactly what you're looking for; Apple is pretty strict about what an App Store app can and can't do outside its sandbox. Otherwise, I've been using the binary installers from PostgreSQL.org on OS X for years, and they work fine. They install everything into /Library/PostgreSQL, so they're self-contained, and the server starts/stops/can be set to auto-start easily with launchctl.
ctide 14y ago
Error: Failed executing: make install-world (postgresql.rb:67) Now I have 2 options. I can continue googling this error and trying all the random solutions (fyi, none of them worked, and I spent a solid 2 hours trying all of them) or I can install postgresql.app and get back to doing actual work. I chose #2.
flatline3 14y ago
port install postgresql90-server Even uses MacPort's pre-built binary packages, so I don't have to wait for the compile. The application GUI is still useful for some people that don't otherwise need MacPorts or homebrew.

mark_l_watson 14y ago

+1 I have done 'brew install postgres' for a long while but I just switched to running this app. I run a lot of data stores on my MB Air (postgresql, mongodb, couchdb, mysql, and more rarely hbase and cassandra) for development. Having postgresql an easy startup app is a little bit more convenient. I also like the CouchDB server Mac app, unless I need bigcouch instead. Thanks to the developers who put the app together.

crag 14y ago

Ahh what is the user/password for first login? Might want to put that in the docs. Also, instructions on how to change them. :)

jensgk 14y ago
That would be essential. I just installed the thing + pgAdmin + Induction. I can't get it to work, because there they do not tell what the default user/pwd is...
telemachos 14y ago
From what I can tell, the app defaults to (1) no password and (2) a base user of $USER. Maybe a better way to put it: whoever you install it as is the owner of the app's folder in /Applications. That will be your base user. I think they're assuming (as is most common) a single-user Mac environment. (The postmaster.opts file hardcodes the name of the Postgres.app owner in the path for the data directory. So I don't think this would work as a multi-user application. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the installation.) Anyhow, start the app, open a psql shell with /Applications/Postgres.app/Contents/MacOS/bin/psql in a terminal window, and you get a session. Since (I think) the app is intended only for development use, I'm not sure if they intend for you to change those defaults. That's not to say that you shouldn't but just that the app is meant to be (nearly) zero conf. (The documentation suggests adding Applications/Postgres.app/Contents/MacOS/bin to $PATH, which is probably a good idea if you will use the command line tools often.)
- crag 14y ago
  The user id is not the owner of the Application folder (the base user of the machine). So n other words, since they didn't bother telling us the user/password, this app is useless. Better off using MacPorts.
  - telemachos 14y ago
    Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you misunderstood me. The /Application folder itself is owned by root: achilles /$ ls -ld Applications/ drwxrwxr-x+ 55 root admin 1870 Jul 20 06:54 Applications/ But that wasn't what I meant. I meant /Applications/Postgres.app. That is owned by the user who installs it to /Applications. Here it is on my machine, for example: achilles /$ ls -ld Applications/Postgres.app/ drwxr-xr-x@ 3 achilles staff 102 Jul 18 20:17 Applications/Postgres.app/ Beyond that, you can login (with no password), this way: achilles /$ /Applications/Postgres.app/Contents/MacOS/bin/psql psql (9.1.4) Type "help" for help. achilles=# I'm sure it works because I just did it. The setup is arguably insecure, but again I don't think it's meant to be a production database. It's meant, as I understand it, for a single developer to use while coding.