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I am not a python developer, but sometimes I use python projects. This puts me in a position where I need to get stuff working while knowing almost nothing abou

I am not a python developer, but sometimes I use python projects. This puts me in a position where I need to get stuff working while knowing almost nothing about how python package management works. Also I don’t recognise errors and I don’t know which python versions generally work well with what. I’ve had it happen so often with pip that I’d have something setup just fine. Let’s say some stable diffusion ui. Then some other month I want to experiment with something like airbyte. Can’t get it working at all. Then some days later I think, let’s generate an image. Only to find out that with pip installing all sorts of stuff for airbyte, I’ve messed up my stable diffusion install somehow. Uv clicked right away for me and I don’t have any of these issues. Was I using pip and asdf incorrectly before? Probably. Was it worth learning how to do it properly in the previous way? Nope. So uv is really great for me.

hyeonwho4 2y ago
This is not just a pip problem. I had the problem with anaconda a few years ago where upgrading the built in editor (spyder?) pulled versions of packages which broke my ML code, or made dependencies impossible to reconsile. It was a mess, wasting hours of time. Since then I use one pip venv for each project and just never update dependencies.
- zahlman 2y ago
  Spyder isn't built-in; IDLE comes with Python (unless you get it via Debian, at least), but is not separately upgradable (as the underlying `idlelib` is part of the standard library). If upgrading Spyder broke your environment, that's presumably because you were using the same environment that Spyder itself was in. (Spyder is also implemented in Python, as the name suggests.) However, IDEs for Python also like to try to do environment management for you (which may conflict with other tools you want to use specifically for the purpose). That's one of the reasons I just edit my code in Vim. If updating dependencies breaks your code, it's ultimately the fault of the dependency (and their maintainers will in turn blame you for not paying attention to their deprecation warnings).
  - matsemann 2y ago
    You're all over the thread defending the standard python tools, which is fine, it works for you. But the amount of times you've had to write that something is natively supported already or people is just using it wrong speaks volumes about why people prefer uv: it just works without having to learn loads of stuff.
  - hyeonwho4 2y ago
    Thanks. I understand this a lot more now that I've learned about venvs, and I'm between VScode and emacs for editing. No longer would I install a editor which depends on the same environment as the code I want to run. As for Spyder, it is included in the default Windows install of Anaconda (and linked to by the default Anaconda Navigator). As a new user doing package management via the GUI, it was not clear at all that Spyder was sharing dependencies with my project until things started breaking. Anaconda was also half-baked in other ways: it broke if the Windows username contains UTF-8 characters, so I ended up creating a new Windows user just for that ML work. PITA.
loxias 2y ago
My life got a lot easier since I adopted the habit of making a shell script, using buildah and podman, that wrapped every python, rust, or golang project I wanted to dabble with. It's so simple! Create a image with the dependencies, then `podman run` it.

hyeonwho4 2y ago

This is not just a pip problem. I had the problem with anaconda a few years ago where upgrading the built in editor (spyder?) pulled versions of packages which broke my ML code, or made dependencies impossible to reconsile. It was a mess, wasting hours of time. Since then I use one pip venv for each project and just never update dependencies.

zahlman 2y ago
Spyder isn't built-in; IDLE comes with Python (unless you get it via Debian, at least), but is not separately upgradable (as the underlying `idlelib` is part of the standard library). If upgrading Spyder broke your environment, that's presumably because you were using the same environment that Spyder itself was in. (Spyder is also implemented in Python, as the name suggests.) However, IDEs for Python also like to try to do environment management for you (which may conflict with other tools you want to use specifically for the purpose). That's one of the reasons I just edit my code in Vim. If updating dependencies breaks your code, it's ultimately the fault of the dependency (and their maintainers will in turn blame you for not paying attention to their deprecation warnings).
- matsemann 2y ago
  You're all over the thread defending the standard python tools, which is fine, it works for you. But the amount of times you've had to write that something is natively supported already or people is just using it wrong speaks volumes about why people prefer uv: it just works without having to learn loads of stuff.
- hyeonwho4 2y ago
  Thanks. I understand this a lot more now that I've learned about venvs, and I'm between VScode and emacs for editing. No longer would I install a editor which depends on the same environment as the code I want to run. As for Spyder, it is included in the default Windows install of Anaconda (and linked to by the default Anaconda Navigator). As a new user doing package management via the GUI, it was not clear at all that Spyder was sharing dependencies with my project until things started breaking. Anaconda was also half-baked in other ways: it broke if the Windows username contains UTF-8 characters, so I ended up creating a new Windows user just for that ML work. PITA.

loxias 2y ago

My life got a lot easier since I adopted the habit of making a shell script, using buildah and podman, that wrapped every python, rust, or golang project I wanted to dabble with. It's so simple! Create a image with the dependencies, then `podman run` it.