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No, I'm not claiming that anthropologists are the "natural and proper authorities charged with gatekeeping"; that's nonsense. What I'm claiming is that the desc

by kens 2y ago

No, I'm not claiming that anthropologists are the "natural and proper authorities charged with gatekeeping"; that's nonsense. What I'm claiming is that the description of cargo cults that everyone knows is fiction.

kazinator 2y ago
You mean it never happened, or not all in one single cargo cult?
- kens 2y ago
  The popular cargo cult story is a mixture of stuff that happened, stuff that was made up, and focusing on the wrong stuff. It's basically an urban legend at this point of people copying from other people. It's a bit like saying that Christianity involves handling rattlesnakes and putting nails through your hands in the belief that God will turn your fillings to gold. That kind of misses the point.
  - kazinator 2y ago
    The cargo cult metaphor has very little content: there are about two main ingredients in it, based on these features of the anecdote: 1. Foreigners visit island, riding on flying machines, bearing mysterious technology and products. 2. Foreigners disappear. 3. Locals worship foreigners as gods, develop a legend that foreigners will return, and use ad hoc hand-made objects whose shape resembles foreigners' technology to summon them, such as model airplanes made of bamboo, or pretend radios. It might all be based on a single anecdote, and that is obvious to anyone with two brain cells. There might have been as few as one actual "cargo cult". I don't suspect anyone believes there were anywhere near half a dozen of these, let alone tens or a hundred or more. A single anecdote is enough for a working metaphor. The Great Hanoi Rat Massacre was one particular episode in history, in one place in the world. Yet we can bring up that name in any situation where the wrong incentives backfire.
layer8 2y ago
That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a useful metaphor or idiom, though. When using the phrase “cargo cult programming”, no one really cares about what actual Polynesians did or didn’t do. One can take it as a fable. The term is used for its quality of being a memorable analogy, similar to “sour grapes”, for example.
- kazinator 2y ago
  It's obviously based on a few anecdotes involving a small number of indigenous groups ... perhaps mainly just one! "Cargo cult" should not be taken as a serious term, on the level of "polytheistic religion" or "agrarian society". Anthropologists who take "cargo cult" seriously have let themselves be trolled by pop culture.
sherburt3 2y ago
Does one need to prove that "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" actually happened one time before they can continue using the phrase?
theodorethomas 2y ago
At my age, I assume that everything that "everybody knows" has a large dollop of fiction pasted around it. "Byzantine generals", anyone?

by kens 2y ago

kazinator 2y ago

You mean it never happened, or not all in one single cargo cult?

kens 2y ago
The popular cargo cult story is a mixture of stuff that happened, stuff that was made up, and focusing on the wrong stuff. It's basically an urban legend at this point of people copying from other people. It's a bit like saying that Christianity involves handling rattlesnakes and putting nails through your hands in the belief that God will turn your fillings to gold. That kind of misses the point.
- kazinator 2y ago
  The cargo cult metaphor has very little content: there are about two main ingredients in it, based on these features of the anecdote: 1. Foreigners visit island, riding on flying machines, bearing mysterious technology and products. 2. Foreigners disappear. 3. Locals worship foreigners as gods, develop a legend that foreigners will return, and use ad hoc hand-made objects whose shape resembles foreigners' technology to summon them, such as model airplanes made of bamboo, or pretend radios. It might all be based on a single anecdote, and that is obvious to anyone with two brain cells. There might have been as few as one actual "cargo cult". I don't suspect anyone believes there were anywhere near half a dozen of these, let alone tens or a hundred or more. A single anecdote is enough for a working metaphor. The Great Hanoi Rat Massacre was one particular episode in history, in one place in the world. Yet we can bring up that name in any situation where the wrong incentives backfire.

layer8 2y ago

That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a useful metaphor or idiom, though. When using the phrase “cargo cult programming”, no one really cares about what actual Polynesians did or didn’t do. One can take it as a fable. The term is used for its quality of being a memorable analogy, similar to “sour grapes”, for example.

kazinator 2y ago
It's obviously based on a few anecdotes involving a small number of indigenous groups ... perhaps mainly just one! "Cargo cult" should not be taken as a serious term, on the level of "polytheistic religion" or "agrarian society". Anthropologists who take "cargo cult" seriously have let themselves be trolled by pop culture.

sherburt3 2y ago

Does one need to prove that "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" actually happened one time before they can continue using the phrase?

theodorethomas 2y ago

At my age, I assume that everything that "everybody knows" has a large dollop of fiction pasted around it. "Byzantine generals", anyone?