3 ms·

> First class serde. What do you mean? `Serialize` and `Deserialize` are not part of std.

tialaramex 2y ago
It's true, they're not part of the standard library. Nevertheless, it is conventional to provide implementations for things you reasonably expect your users might want to serialize and deserialize. Standard guidance includes telling you to name a feature flag (if you want one for this) serde and not something else so as to reduce extra work for your users. Because Rust's package ecosystem is more robust it's less anxious about the strict line between things everybody must have (in the standard library) and things most people want (maybe or maybe not in the standard library). In C++ there's a powerful urge to land everything you might need in the stdlib, so that it's available. For example the FreeBSD base system includes C++. They're not keen on adding to their base system, so for example they seem disinclined to take Rust, but when each C++ ISO standard bolts in whatever new random nonsense well that's part of C++ so it's in the base system for free. Weird data structure a game dev wants? An entire linear algebra system from Fortran? Comprehensive SI unit systems? It's not up to the FreeBSD gatekeepers, a WG21 vote gets all of those huge requirements into FreeBSD anyway.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  This was a conscious decision by Rust folks. Let the language and std libraries be small enough to target anything - and let well-established crates (most written/started by the rust folks) fill in functionality. The main language provided the baseline interfaces, in some cases (see async), but not the machinery (e.g., async runtimes).
- loeg 2y ago
  FWIW C++ in FreeBSD is a little contentious. The overall system build time is dominated by Clang, with the rest of FreeBSD "a wart on the side." In base, the C++ compiler was pretty much only used for devd (something vaguely like Linux' udev), and devd is written in a pre-C++11 dialect -- no new features. Using more of it isn't exactly encouraged; it's not allowed in the kernel. There are two significant barriers to Rust in FreeBSD base -- first, cultural: it's just a bunch of greybeards opposed to anything and everything new; and second, technical: Rust just doesn't (or didn't) have compiler backends for the same subset of platforms FreeBSD does (or did). (This situation is improving as FreeBSD finally drops official support for obsolete SPARC, 32-bit ARM, MIPS, and 32-bit PowerPC platforms, but obviously cultural barriers remain.)

It's true, they're not part of the standard library. Nevertheless, it is conventional to provide implementations for things you reasonably expect your users might want to serialize and deserialize. Standard guidance includes telling you to name a feature flag (if you want one for this) serde and not something else so as to reduce extra work for your users. Because Rust's package ecosystem is more robust it's less anxious about the strict line between things everybody must have (in the standard library) and things most people want (maybe or maybe not in the standard library). In C++ there's a powerful urge to land everything you might need in the stdlib, so that it's available. For example the FreeBSD base system includes C++. They're not keen on adding to their base system, so for example they seem disinclined to take Rust, but when each C++ ISO standard bolts in whatever new random nonsense well that's part of C++ so it's in the base system for free. Weird data structure a game dev wants? An entire linear algebra system from Fortran? Comprehensive SI unit systems? It's not up to the FreeBSD gatekeepers, a WG21 vote gets all of those huge requirements into FreeBSD anyway.

jvanderbot 2y ago
This was a conscious decision by Rust folks. Let the language and std libraries be small enough to target anything - and let well-established crates (most written/started by the rust folks) fill in functionality. The main language provided the baseline interfaces, in some cases (see async), but not the machinery (e.g., async runtimes).
loeg 2y ago
FWIW C++ in FreeBSD is a little contentious. The overall system build time is dominated by Clang, with the rest of FreeBSD "a wart on the side." In base, the C++ compiler was pretty much only used for devd (something vaguely like Linux' udev), and devd is written in a pre-C++11 dialect -- no new features. Using more of it isn't exactly encouraged; it's not allowed in the kernel. There are two significant barriers to Rust in FreeBSD base -- first, cultural: it's just a bunch of greybeards opposed to anything and everything new; and second, technical: Rust just doesn't (or didn't) have compiler backends for the same subset of platforms FreeBSD does (or did). (This situation is improving as FreeBSD finally drops official support for obsolete SPARC, 32-bit ARM, MIPS, and 32-bit PowerPC platforms, but obviously cultural barriers remain.)