3 ms·

Well known by people who pay attention, yet ignored by people who make policy at the local level. Look at the before pictures in LA. Homes with flammable exte

by lokar 2y ago

Well known by people who pay attention, yet ignored by people who make policy at the local level. Look at the before pictures in LA. Homes with flammable exteriors and dense plantings. Look at Laguna beach to the south. About half the town burned in the 90s. Strict building codes and regular inspections. It’s expensive and annoying to homeowners, but it works.

morkalork 2y ago
"What Saved The ‘Miracle House’ In Lahaina?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37192915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37192915 Iirc, one of items listed was rocks/gravel surrounding the house on the ground so any embers that landed beside the building had nothing to feed on ignite.
- throw0101a 2y ago
  Don't even have to go back in time in another state, but even right now in California, "Owner of ‘miracle’ Malibu mansion reveals why he thinks house survived raging fire": > “It’s stucco and stone with a fireproof roof,’’ he said, adding that it also includes pilings “like 50 feet into the bedrock’’ to keep it steady when powerful waves crash into the seawall below it. * https://nypost.com/2025/01/10/us-news/owner-of-miracle-malibu-mansion-reveals-why-he-thinks-house-survived-raging-fire/ https://nypost.com/2025/01/10/us-news/owner-of-miracle-malib... And you don't need to have a building made out of concrete either, as long as the shell and the surrounding area is not flammable: * https://www.builderonline.com/building/safety-healthfulness/how-to-build-fire-proof-homes_o https://www.builderonline.com/building/safety-healthfulness/... * https://www.nfpa.org/en/education-and-research/wildfire/preparing-homes-for-wildfire https://www.nfpa.org/en/education-and-research/wildfire/prep...
whimsicalism 2y ago
What we see is the outcome of a political process, but doesn’t mean policymakers are unaware. All it really means is that when it comes to a battle between fire prevention people and people who like their gardens, in the absence of a fire, the people worried about fire are going to look like scolds and the people who want the individual freedom to have a garden are going to win the political fight. More of a collective outcome of our society than oversight by policymakers. Good luck trying to ban gardens in the Oakland hills, people just won’t do it even if policymakers want it. Probably the best way to do it would be to deregulate insurance and give them discretion - “oh you want to have a garden in a fire prone area, sure - that will just be 3x your original bill”
- lokar 2y ago
  Do you mean garden in the American sense or the British sense? Tomato plants are not a problem. Trees and dense shrubs near the house are.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    i'm referring to the generally dense areas of green and trees that are common on the west coast ie like what you see here https://maps.app.goo.gl/hWghBErtRoHU8CTm9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/hWghBErtRoHU8CTm9
    - lokar 2y ago
      Yeah, that’s just not safe in places that can go 9+ months without rain and get 50+mph dry winds most years.
  - RangerScience 2y ago
    AFAIK, just the shrubs. Particularly, California native trees are fine for and in fires. And if you look at the pictures, the houses have burned but the trees haven’t.
    - throw0101a 2y ago
      >[…] the houses have burned but the trees haven’t. Which of course has fuelled conspiracy theories: * https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/los-angeles-wildfire-trees-1.7428870 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/los-angeles-wildfire-trees-1.7... TL; DR: dry bushes burn, trees with moisture in them do not.
throw0101a 2y ago
> Well known by people who pay attention, yet ignored by people who make policy at the local level. It is not ignored by local policy folks: > Molly Mowery, an author of a 2020 report for Los Angeles County on how to reduce wildfire risk, said that the county now takes wildfire into account when reviewing new housing development plans. The problem, she said, is that nearly 90 percent of the county’s housing stock was built before 1990, before many subdivision or building code requirements for wildfire hazards took effect. Once fire enters these communities, the homes are the fuel. * https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2025/01/11/la-fires-unprepared-palisades-altadena-california/ https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/20... But to a certain extent government can only do what the citizens want to be done: > Nic Arnzen, a town council member in Altadena, where thousands of homes, businesses, restaurants and parks were lost in the Eaton Fire, said the unincorporated community in Los Angeles County was trying to address fire risks. Less than a month ago, the town council chair wrote a letter to Los Angeles County Supervisor Kathryn Barger, recommending she adopt a controversial land-use plan that would direct development away from the Altadena foothills “and other high fire hazard zones.” > It had been a subject of debate for months. Residents concerned about the community’s vulnerability to an inferno roaring off the slope of the San Gabriel Mountains favored the plan. But others didn’t want to lose the ability to develop their properties in the hills. […] * Ibid.
- lokar 2y ago
  They could, but don’t, enforce vegetation clearance around homes, even 100 year old homes. But you are correct, politicians can only “lead” a much as voters allow.
- rurban 2y ago
  The problem of non-compliant old buildings eventually solves itself, as seen here. All new buildings must comply with current building codes. Same thing as in all European cities in the middle ages, where building codes eventually enforced itself.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    This and insurance cancellations will ensure eventual compliance.

by lokar 2y ago

morkalork 2y ago

"What Saved The ‘Miracle House’ In Lahaina?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37192915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37192915 Iirc, one of items listed was rocks/gravel surrounding the house on the ground so any embers that landed beside the building had nothing to feed on ignite.

throw0101a 2y ago
Don't even have to go back in time in another state, but even right now in California, "Owner of ‘miracle’ Malibu mansion reveals why he thinks house survived raging fire": > “It’s stucco and stone with a fireproof roof,’’ he said, adding that it also includes pilings “like 50 feet into the bedrock’’ to keep it steady when powerful waves crash into the seawall below it. * https://nypost.com/2025/01/10/us-news/owner-of-miracle-malibu-mansion-reveals-why-he-thinks-house-survived-raging-fire/ https://nypost.com/2025/01/10/us-news/owner-of-miracle-malib... And you don't need to have a building made out of concrete either, as long as the shell and the surrounding area is not flammable: * https://www.builderonline.com/building/safety-healthfulness/how-to-build-fire-proof-homes_o https://www.builderonline.com/building/safety-healthfulness/... * https://www.nfpa.org/en/education-and-research/wildfire/preparing-homes-for-wildfire https://www.nfpa.org/en/education-and-research/wildfire/prep...

whimsicalism 2y ago

What we see is the outcome of a political process, but doesn’t mean policymakers are unaware. All it really means is that when it comes to a battle between fire prevention people and people who like their gardens, in the absence of a fire, the people worried about fire are going to look like scolds and the people who want the individual freedom to have a garden are going to win the political fight. More of a collective outcome of our society than oversight by policymakers. Good luck trying to ban gardens in the Oakland hills, people just won’t do it even if policymakers want it. Probably the best way to do it would be to deregulate insurance and give them discretion - “oh you want to have a garden in a fire prone area, sure - that will just be 3x your original bill”

lokar 2y ago
Do you mean garden in the American sense or the British sense? Tomato plants are not a problem. Trees and dense shrubs near the house are.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  i'm referring to the generally dense areas of green and trees that are common on the west coast ie like what you see here https://maps.app.goo.gl/hWghBErtRoHU8CTm9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/hWghBErtRoHU8CTm9
  - lokar 2y ago
    Yeah, that’s just not safe in places that can go 9+ months without rain and get 50+mph dry winds most years.
- RangerScience 2y ago
  AFAIK, just the shrubs. Particularly, California native trees are fine for and in fires. And if you look at the pictures, the houses have burned but the trees haven’t.
  - throw0101a 2y ago
    >[…] the houses have burned but the trees haven’t. Which of course has fuelled conspiracy theories: * https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/los-angeles-wildfire-trees-1.7428870 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/los-angeles-wildfire-trees-1.7... TL; DR: dry bushes burn, trees with moisture in them do not.

throw0101a 2y ago

> Well known by people who pay attention, yet ignored by people who make policy at the local level. It is not ignored by local policy folks: > Molly Mowery, an author of a 2020 report for Los Angeles County on how to reduce wildfire risk, said that the county now takes wildfire into account when reviewing new housing development plans. The problem, she said, is that nearly 90 percent of the county’s housing stock was built before 1990, before many subdivision or building code requirements for wildfire hazards took effect. Once fire enters these communities, the homes are the fuel. * https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2025/01/11/la-fires-unprepared-palisades-altadena-california/ https://archive.is/https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/20... But to a certain extent government can only do what the citizens want to be done: > Nic Arnzen, a town council member in Altadena, where thousands of homes, businesses, restaurants and parks were lost in the Eaton Fire, said the unincorporated community in Los Angeles County was trying to address fire risks. Less than a month ago, the town council chair wrote a letter to Los Angeles County Supervisor Kathryn Barger, recommending she adopt a controversial land-use plan that would direct development away from the Altadena foothills “and other high fire hazard zones.” > It had been a subject of debate for months. Residents concerned about the community’s vulnerability to an inferno roaring off the slope of the San Gabriel Mountains favored the plan. But others didn’t want to lose the ability to develop their properties in the hills. […] * Ibid.

lokar 2y ago
They could, but don’t, enforce vegetation clearance around homes, even 100 year old homes. But you are correct, politicians can only “lead” a much as voters allow.
rurban 2y ago
The problem of non-compliant old buildings eventually solves itself, as seen here. All new buildings must comply with current building codes. Same thing as in all European cities in the middle ages, where building codes eventually enforced itself.
- euroderf 2y ago
  This and insurance cancellations will ensure eventual compliance.