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Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to produ

Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics, and this social technology is an unappreciated contributor to productivity. I agree this kind of thing is performative, but let’s steel man the other side. You are looking for a place to spend 8 hours a day doing your most skillful craft, and you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? Yes I understand it’s performative, but why wouldn’t you take 10 minutes to indicate you are doing that kind of serious thinking? It’s like asking a boss for guidance without doing groundwork to make a recommendation.

AnotherGoodName 2y ago
Company level mission statements tend to be too vague to be relevant or helpful and they really don't actually apply anyway. They may as well all say "we do good things" when the actual underlying goal is "make money". I do believe in the "When in Rome do as the Romans do" mindset though so i'll happily memorize it 2 mins before the interview. It's just that i 100% openly refuse to accept they are anything other than virtue signalling.
- liontwist 2y ago
  All that might be true, and it’s still a bad political move to show up without preparation that indicates you did more than upload a resume. You’re basically saying “i don’t know how to present myself and I’m going to cause problems for your organization”. It’s like “why can’t I show up at 2 PM and work until 11. I get my work done”. You just have no awareness and are a liability for your boss.
  - soco 2y ago
    This very reason is why US company culture is mocked in all those US shows, yet ironically (and often not ironically) US workers still take offense and defend it. Because if memorizing the company's... uh, what was that text called... thing, is what makes you useful in a company, sorry I cannot continue without laughing so I'll stop here.
tolciho 2y ago
The Manhattan project, which by some accounts was a fairly large and complicated project, had no mission statement known to most people doing their daily work to who knows what end. Sure, you could go with "stick it to the nazis", and they did have some advertising spam to that effect, but that's down in the "like, duh?" (or less polite forms) as far as mission statements go. Put another way, how does reciting the mission statement differ from a loyalty dance for chairman Mao? I get that many have an economic (or life) imperative to go along with what the clownsuite orders, but these same people make fun of island savages in the Pacific for "cargo culting".
- liontwist 2y ago
  I don't see how this comment relates. I'm telling you how to get hired and succeed at a corporation.
  - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
    You need to listen more and talk less.
    - liontwist 2y ago
      I’m sorry, did you have something to contribute?
      - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
        You're still not listening.
grey-area 2y ago
‘Adult’ and ‘serious thinking’ are not the words I’d use to describe this behaviour. It’s extremely bizarre and cult-like when viewed from other cultures and comes across as insincere (which it is) and the very opposite of serious thinking - it is performative loyalty of the type that kings used to ask of their subjects. American mission statements often have very little to do with what the company does, or even the values they actually hold (as opposed to profess to hold). They do not usually describe the work to be done.
- liontwist 2y ago
  > it is performative loyalty of the type that kings used to ask of their subjects. Master/servant is a relationship as old as time. You can acknowledge and navigate it or pretend it doesn't exist.
  - jay_kyburz 2y ago
    In Australia, nobody sees themself as servant, and you will be torn down if you see yourself as a master. Managers are just people like everybody else and have a job with different tasks.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - trimethylpurine 2y ago
      That sounds like pretense. Are they paid the same? The question is meant as sarcasm. I find this thread so ridiculous. I've traveled all over and lived all over. I rarely find that peoples' perceived cultural distinctions are in line with reality. I think instead it's often just lip service to their own sense of identity. Above, someone mentioned that Americans have an idea that there is a master and servant relation with your boss. As an American I find that shocking. I have never felt that way about my bosses nor have I ever treated an employee that way. As a lowly sys admin many years ago, I went to bars and lunches with CEOs of companies of hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm still friends with them. I'm not worth millions but we still go out for drinks and enjoy dinners together. I'm not just talking about one person. This is not rare. We respond to people the way we think they want us to respond. Your own stereotypes about another culture will be self fulfilling because of that. Additionally any assumption you can make, about American culture specifically, would miss the fact of American culture. We have none because we have all cultures. My kid probably hears more Hindi than English in the classroom. To make any statement about culture in America you'd need to specify. Americans from where have a master/slave mentality? Americans from Australia? India? Pakistan? China? Japan? Which of those are the "Americans" you're referring to? Surely you wouldn't assume each of those groups have just one culture.
watwut 2y ago
Those manifestos are designed to sound good. They are not designed to express what the company is trying to achieve or rewards. There is zero serious thinking involved in learning them. It is all pretensions, you know it, management knows it, employees know it. OP understands organizational politics well - they learned them and they understand it was for passing the interview.
- soco 2y ago
  I can guarantee you nobody knows it around here, managers or employees, and we work for an US company (in Europe though). We also don't ask it in interviews yet we all are successful at what we do. That's one data point.
GJim 2y ago
> Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics Genuine LOL! > you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? You <------> The point A 'mission statement' is a load of wank. They have nothing whatsoever to do with what a company is trying to achieve. Indeed, they were satirised as such in the USA by Dilbert cartoons 30 years ago! In Australia and Blighty (and no doubt many other places with a similar culture) "I haven't memorised the mission statement, because it is wank" will get you points for being honest and direct...... We don't like to play at fakery.

AnotherGoodName 2y ago

Company level mission statements tend to be too vague to be relevant or helpful and they really don't actually apply anyway. They may as well all say "we do good things" when the actual underlying goal is "make money". I do believe in the "When in Rome do as the Romans do" mindset though so i'll happily memorize it 2 mins before the interview. It's just that i 100% openly refuse to accept they are anything other than virtue signalling.

liontwist 2y ago
All that might be true, and it’s still a bad political move to show up without preparation that indicates you did more than upload a resume. You’re basically saying “i don’t know how to present myself and I’m going to cause problems for your organization”. It’s like “why can’t I show up at 2 PM and work until 11. I get my work done”. You just have no awareness and are a liability for your boss.
- soco 2y ago
  This very reason is why US company culture is mocked in all those US shows, yet ironically (and often not ironically) US workers still take offense and defend it. Because if memorizing the company's... uh, what was that text called... thing, is what makes you useful in a company, sorry I cannot continue without laughing so I'll stop here.

tolciho 2y ago

The Manhattan project, which by some accounts was a fairly large and complicated project, had no mission statement known to most people doing their daily work to who knows what end. Sure, you could go with "stick it to the nazis", and they did have some advertising spam to that effect, but that's down in the "like, duh?" (or less polite forms) as far as mission statements go. Put another way, how does reciting the mission statement differ from a loyalty dance for chairman Mao? I get that many have an economic (or life) imperative to go along with what the clownsuite orders, but these same people make fun of island savages in the Pacific for "cargo culting".

liontwist 2y ago
I don't see how this comment relates. I'm telling you how to get hired and succeed at a corporation.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
  You need to listen more and talk less.
  - liontwist 2y ago
    I’m sorry, did you have something to contribute?
    - HeatrayEnjoyer 2y ago
      You're still not listening.

grey-area 2y ago

‘Adult’ and ‘serious thinking’ are not the words I’d use to describe this behaviour. It’s extremely bizarre and cult-like when viewed from other cultures and comes across as insincere (which it is) and the very opposite of serious thinking - it is performative loyalty of the type that kings used to ask of their subjects. American mission statements often have very little to do with what the company does, or even the values they actually hold (as opposed to profess to hold). They do not usually describe the work to be done.

liontwist 2y ago
> it is performative loyalty of the type that kings used to ask of their subjects. Master/servant is a relationship as old as time. You can acknowledge and navigate it or pretend it doesn't exist.
- jay_kyburz 2y ago
  In Australia, nobody sees themself as servant, and you will be torn down if you see yourself as a master. Managers are just people like everybody else and have a job with different tasks.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - trimethylpurine 2y ago
    That sounds like pretense. Are they paid the same? The question is meant as sarcasm. I find this thread so ridiculous. I've traveled all over and lived all over. I rarely find that peoples' perceived cultural distinctions are in line with reality. I think instead it's often just lip service to their own sense of identity. Above, someone mentioned that Americans have an idea that there is a master and servant relation with your boss. As an American I find that shocking. I have never felt that way about my bosses nor have I ever treated an employee that way. As a lowly sys admin many years ago, I went to bars and lunches with CEOs of companies of hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm still friends with them. I'm not worth millions but we still go out for drinks and enjoy dinners together. I'm not just talking about one person. This is not rare. We respond to people the way we think they want us to respond. Your own stereotypes about another culture will be self fulfilling because of that. Additionally any assumption you can make, about American culture specifically, would miss the fact of American culture. We have none because we have all cultures. My kid probably hears more Hindi than English in the classroom. To make any statement about culture in America you'd need to specify. Americans from where have a master/slave mentality? Americans from Australia? India? Pakistan? China? Japan? Which of those are the "Americans" you're referring to? Surely you wouldn't assume each of those groups have just one culture.

watwut 2y ago

Those manifestos are designed to sound good. They are not designed to express what the company is trying to achieve or rewards. There is zero serious thinking involved in learning them. It is all pretensions, you know it, management knows it, employees know it. OP understands organizational politics well - they learned them and they understand it was for passing the interview.

soco 2y ago
I can guarantee you nobody knows it around here, managers or employees, and we work for an US company (in Europe though). We also don't ask it in interviews yet we all are successful at what we do. That's one data point.

GJim 2y ago

> Reading this thread I’m realizing maybe Americans better understand organizational politics Genuine LOL! > you don’t want to know what the organization is trying to achieve? You <------> The point A 'mission statement' is a load of wank. They have nothing whatsoever to do with what a company is trying to achieve. Indeed, they were satirised as such in the USA by Dilbert cartoons 30 years ago! In Australia and Blighty (and no doubt many other places with a similar culture) "I haven't memorised the mission statement, because it is wank" will get you points for being honest and direct...... We don't like to play at fakery.